Quoting Dave Key from the "linen overdresses thread":

quote:

---

Have a light wool gown with fur trim that you're wearing ... maybe lined in the main in 'black lining' ... probably of linen dyed with oak gall) and purfelled as appropriate to your degree.

---

I've never heard of "black lining" - is this a period term for a specific fabric? Or just any sort of black fabric used for lining?

Martin

[ 09-25-2005: Message edited by: Martin ]

--------------------

My apologies for the delay in replying ... work 'n' all.

I mentioned 'Black Lining' as this is actually surprisingly common in descriptions of linings. The Howards Household books contain numerous references to it.

Unfortunately it isn't detailed what precisely this was. In all probability it was black linen, in in this context blkack being cheap oak gall black rather than a fine black dye owing to the cost. However linings were made to suit the garment (and its purpose ... e.g. summer wear or winter wear. The Howards Household books again give glimpses of this including the use of different linings for the sleeves to the body ... exactly as many modern suits and coats are.

I'd need to go back and look at my sources to see if there is much more detail ... the costs are often a fiar guide since most cloths are relatively standard prices.

From memory Black linen, or at least Fustian, was being produced cheaply in Southern Germany during the C15h. and this was increasingly being traded through tp England (hence the drop in status and increase in availability of fustian.

There is another possibility however. In Leather Colour is used to denote a type &/or state of the leather rather than the colour ... although it does have a bearing. e.g. White leather is tawed, whilst black leather is finished tanned leather and red leather is unfinished tanned leather ... so be wary ... I'll see if I can dig something more definitive up for you if I get a chance.

Again my apologies for the delay in replying.

Our group has had lots of trouble finding a dyer to produce a decent black on wool, overdyed not using oak gall, that is hard enough.

But 'black' is a relative term given the various ways it can be produced.

--------------------

Am I sure it's "Linen" in this case... no, probable yes, certain no.
Did they dye linen 'black' ... yes and cheaply.

Was it Oak Gall ... actually pretty much any tannic dye (oak chips, oak gall etc.) & iron mordant will produce some sort of black.

but as Jorge says ... "black" is a subjective term. In fact all colours are fairly subjective ... 'Grey' and 'Blue' both coming from woad dyebaths for instance. and what we call a colour is by nature 'coloured' by our own experiences of modern saturated dyes and printing etc.

Cheers
Dave

OG is convenient but not precise.

--------------------