I have found a ton of info about forsters and their various jobs. In addition to royal foresters, just about every Manorial Lord employed foresters to look after their vert and venison. They were essentially law enforcement officers with powers of arrest. Being in positions of authority, and being officers of the King or other nobles or clergy members, I would think foresters would wear some form of identification of their employer, but I've found no documentation one way or the other. Can anyone point me towards any illustrations or text that may address this qestion? Thanks.

Let me dig through what I've got and see what I can come up with. Brent Hanner has done some research into hunting and things associated with it.

Bob Posting as Jenn, because she didn't log out!

[ 06-08-2005: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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Foresters were more like conservation officers or modern day forest rangers. They were responsible for enforcing the forest laws. This included protecting the forest from poachers, and looking after the game. But a big part of the job also dealt with timber. Foresters would oversee the sale and legal harvesting of timber, as well as protect it form illegal harvesting. They also dealt with laws and permits regarding the grazing of cattle and pigs within the forest (which did not necessarily mean woodlands back then). Foresters would fine and/or arrest violators. The head forester might have a number of people working for him or her under various titles: under-foresters, wardens, bow-bearers, rangers, etc.

With huntsmen, it is well documented in various contemporary sources that they were aware of the value of camouflage, and would often wear muted earth tones, unless they were the ones driving game. Part of a forester’s job would be to stealthily patrol the forest looking for poachers, and the historic heraldic symbol for a forester was a hunting horn. So perhaps they did dress pretty much as huntsmen did. But then again, like I mentioned in my original post, they were law enforcement officers working as representatives of a noble or even the King. In that capacity, I would think it would be likely that the foresters would wear the badge or livery colors of their overseer.

A Yeoman had he, and servántes nomo
At that tyme, for him liste ryde so;
And he was clad in cote and hood of grene.
A shef of pecok arrows bright and kene
Under his belte he bare ful thriftily.
Wel coude he dresse his tackel yeomanly;
His arrows droopčd nought with fetheres low.
And in his hond he bare a mighty bowe.
A round-hed had he with a broun viságe.
Of woode-craft wel knew he al the uságe.
Upon his arme he bar a gay bracer,
And by his side a swerd and buckeler,
And on that other side a gay daggere,
Adornčd wel, and sharp as poynt of spere;
A buckle on his brest of silver shene.
An horn he bare, the girdle was of grene;
A forester was he soothly, as I gesse.

Peacock arrows? Our forester sounds a bit "toney".

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For a modern source, you could try to Contact the Verderers in the New Forest (Hampshire, England) and seeing if they have any suitable records since they have (and still do) acted as the legal authority there from the time the land was afforested in the C12th.

This is a section from that I found with a quick search ...

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History of the Verderers
The New Forest was created by King William I in 1079, just 13 years after the Battle of Hastings. This was the land of earlier Jutish settlers known as Ytene. For William, it was ideal for a new hunting ground, a poor, thinly populated district of furzey waste and ancient woodland covering over 200 square miles, yet close to his royal capital of Winchester. In 1184, Henry II required local knights to undertake unpaid duties in the administration of Royal Forests. In every Forest county, four knights were appointed as Agisters to make arrangements for the feeding of swine in the sovereign's woods, and to collect "pannage" dues from those turning out pigs into the Forests. He also appointed 12 knights in each county responsible for the safekeeping of his vert and venison. These knights were the forerunners of the Verderers and Regarders (Regarders held a triennial enquiry - the Regard - into the state of the vert, and accounted for those that trespassed upon it. They formed a central administration for the collection of royal revenue from breaches of Forest Law. The title is no longer used).
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and the following on Verderes in Epping Forest (although they no longer ist there ...

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The Verderers of Epping Forest.

The royal forests were administered by two sets of officials. Each forest had a Lord Warden, also known as the Steward, under whom the Master Keepers, Under Keepers, Woodwards, Reeves, Regarders and Rangers of the Purlieus, were responsible for the day to day management of the forest. Parallel to these officials a judicial system of forest courts operated to bring to justice the offenders against the forest laws. The King appointed two Chief Justices, one for all the forests south of the Trent, and the other for those forests to the north.
An Iron Camp (c 300-500BC), situated in the middle of forest
© Loughton & District Historical Society
Initially two levels of courts were introduced. The Court of Attachments, or Verderers Court, met every 40 days, and was the equivalent of the local magistrates court under common law. This court was presided over by the Verderers who were elected by the freeholders of the county, following a writ issued by the Lord Chancellor to the Sheriff. The office of Verderer is one of the oldest judicial bodies in England and the first appointments are lost in time, although for Epping Forest we have the names of most of the Verderers since 1250. The appointment was considered to be one for life, but any Verderer could be removed by the Crown for incapacity, or lack of due property qualification within the forest. The Verderers symbol of office was an axe. In Manwood's Treatise on the Forest Laws, published in 1598, he states that a Verderer should be an esquire or gentleman of good estate and learned in the laws of the forest. They varied in number, in the small forests there were only two, but four seems to have been the average. It was the Verderer's duty to view, receive and enroll all manner of attachments for vert or venison trespass, and to attend all forest courts.

Words: Richard Morris OBE
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and the following synopsis on a book (I haven't seen) on "The Verderers and Forest Laws of Dean" (as in the Forest of Dean) ...
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Forest along with its Forest law supplementing Common law in England, was introduced by the Norman conqueror after 1066 for the purpose of providing for the ‘beasts of the forest’, in particular the Deer and boar, and for the protection of their habitat - the unenclosed woodland, undergrowth, heath, and other vegetation, known as the Vert - a word taken from the French, meaning green. The name of Verderer has the same origin. The provisions of Forest law applied to regions designated as forest, which did not necessarily consist mainly of woodland and heathland; pasture, meadow, arable, and even hamlets, villages, and townships could also be included.
The Verderers, usually four to each region of Royal Forest, were judicial officers, their original duties being to deal with matters under forest law. The main offences were the taking of venison, the illegal cutting of or destruction of woodland, and various encroachments such as unauthorized enclosures and buildings.
All the foregoing is very evident in the history of the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire, to which this treatise is directed. Herein the reader will learn much about the Verderers and their court past and

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In general though most household officers were issued with clothing as livery and traditionally this would be in the form of Grey in Winter (Michelmas) and Green in Spring (Easter) or in "household colours" (which could vary year on year so they are not as hard and fast as some military/heraldry historians would like).

Since the Grey & Green were typically assoicated with hunting they would be suitable for a Forester in all likelihood.

As to badges, extremely ikely as this was the primary method of showing househld association (much more than 'livery'). The Thames bargemen still have their badge worn on the upper left sleeve of their ceremonial gowns and there are other references to the left sleeve for badges for bargemen I think (these were in Ed IV's household and wore blue & murrey gowns).

For a book on medieval Hunting I'd serious recommend "The Hawk and the Hound" which I'm pretty sure has a chapter on the huntsmen (my copy is at home I'm afraid).

The following is for FOresters in Scotland (Aberdeen) ...
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4. Foresters
The natural resource of wood was far more essential to medieval Aberdonians than it is to us today. Wood was the main material for house-building, for fencing and for construction of all kinds. Wood was also in use for a wide range of household equipment, for shipbuilding, wheelmaking, cart-making, coopering and much more.

Foresters were appointed to protect the forest to ensure that no one 'destroyed' wood, that is to say took any without proper authority, thus depleting the stocks. However they were not the most effective of officers. On 30 October 1410 Johannes Willelmi was convicted for destroying wood and the forester fined for neglect. The same happened on 18 November 1398. In 1448, Johannes Spens and Alexander Anderson, Keepers of the Stocket Forest, were also fined for neglecting their office.

Despite the relative fragility of wood, damp soil conditions have allowed the survival of a wide range of medieval timber, both structural remains and artefacts. They confirm that oak, birch, rowan, hazel, alder and ash were amongst the species under the care of the medieval foresters

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bit more on Foresters from a ballad (not sure of the date or provenance but looks C14th Scottish to me) ....

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Johnie rose up in a May morning,
Called for water to wash his hands:
'Gar loose to me the gude graie dogs,
That are bound wi iron bands.'

When Johnie's mother gat word o that,
Her hands for dule she wrang:
'O Johnie, for my bennison,
To the grenewood dinna gang!

'Eneugh ye hae o the gude wheat-bread,
And enugh o the blude-red wine,
And therefore for nae vennison, Johnie,
I pray ye, stir frae hame.'

But Johnie's buskt up his gude bend bow,
His arrows, ane by ane,
And he has gane to Durrisdeer,
To hunt the dun deer down.

As he came down my Merriemass,
And in by the benty line,
There has he espied a deer lying
Aneath a bush of ling.

Johnie he shot, and the dun deer lap,
And he wounded her on the side,
But atween the water and the brae,
His hounds they laid her pride.

And Johnie has bryttled the deer sae weel
That he's had out her liver and lungs,
And wi these he has feasted his bludey hounds
As if they had been erl's sons.

They eat sae much o the vennison,
And drank sae much o the blude,
That Johnie and a' his bludey hounds
Fell asleep as they had been dead.

And by there came a silly auld carle,
An ill death mote he die!
For he's awa to Hislinton,
Where the Seven Foresters did lie.

'What news, what news, ye gray-headed carle?
What news bring ye to me?'
'I bring nae news,' said the gray-headed carle,
'Save what these eyes did see.

'As I came down by Merriemass,
And down amang the scroggs,
The bonniest childe that ever I saw
Lay sleeping amang his dogs.

'The shirt that was upon his back
Was o the holland fine;
The doublet which was over that
Was o the Lincome twine.

'The buttons that were on his sleeve
Were o the gowd sae gude;
The gude graie hounds he lay amang,
Their mouths were dyed wi blude.'

Then out and spak the first forester,
The heid man ower them a':
If this be Johnie o Breadislee,
Nae nearer will we draw.

But up and spak the sixth forester,
His sister's son was he:
If this be Johnie o Breadislee,
We soon shall gar him die.

The first flight of arrows the foresters shot,
They wounded him on the knee;
And out and spak the seventh forester,
The next will gar him die.

Johnie's set his back against an aik,
his fute against a stane,
And he has slain the Seven Foresters,
He has slain them a' but ane.

He has broke three ribs in that ane's side,
But and his collar bane;
He's laid him twa-fald ower his steed,
Bade him carry the tidings hame.

'O is there na a bonnie bird
Can sing as I can say,
Could flee away to my mother's bower,
And tell to fetch Johnie away?'

The starling flew to his mother's window-stane,
It whistled and it sang,
And aye the ower-word o the tune
Was, Johnie tarries lang!

They made a rod o the hazel-bush,
Another o the slae-thorn tree,
And mony, mony were the men
At fetching our Johnie.

Then out and spake his auld mother,
And fast her teirs did fa;
Ye wad nae be warnd, my son Johnie,
Frae the hunting to bide awa.

'Aft hae I brought to Breadislee
The less gear and the mair,
but I neer brought to Breadislee
What grieved my heart sae sair.

'But wae betyde that silly auld carle,
An ill death shall he die;
For the highest tree on Merriemass
Shall be his morning's fee.'

Now Johnie's gude bend bow is broke,
And his gude graie dogs are slain,
And his bodie lies dead in Durrisdeer,
And his hunting it is done.

The ballad, Johnie Cock, appears in Volume III of The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, Edited by Francis James Child. These volumes are in the public domain.

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May be of interest the 'The Charter of the Forest' (which was written alongside Magna Carta and was consider as important at the time), outlines the roles nd responsibilities of the Foresteres, Verders etc. http://www.constitution.org/sech/sech_045.htmghe

After all of that ... I didn't find much specifically ... but an interesting topic to skim research in my lunch break ...

I'll keep my eyes open for more.

Another quick note concerning peacock feathers used for fletching by yeomen/forresters in this time... It appears that archers used the wing feathers (not the flashy and useless tailfeathers). Swan and peakcock were most preferred, with goose following close behind.

For a good number of interesting sources to pursue, see _Chaucer and Costume_ by Laura Hodges, especially Chapter 6: "A Hierarchy of Blades and Bags: The Franklin, Yeoman, Guildsmen, Shipman, Miller, Reeve, and the Pardoner". This book has apparently been reprinted recently and is available from Amazon, among others. It's a dense read, but chock-full of fabulous textual sources to pursue for deeper understanding.

I forgot about the spades(?) and the wing feathers. It just struck me as the birds being somewhat fancy for the time and place.

Were they that common that they could be used for such a purpose?

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For heavy or day to day use including war arrows, I prefer the stiffness and reliability (water resistant tendancies) of the goose. Only the finest arrows (either elite hunting or nobleman) would have had peacock due to the expense. In actual use, the peacock feathers are much finer and less durable. They certainly look nicer, but they would be much less practical to the all weather hunter.

But we ARE getting off track from the original question. Which is a good one. I'm trying to get more information on forester and hunting retreat management regarding the Spessart in Germany.

Dave, I haven't seen a lot of your text before, which surprises me in a way, because I have two huge Word files of relevant text I have copied from online research. I'm particularly interested in your source for this info:

quote:

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In general though most household officers were issued with clothing as livery and traditionally this would be in the form of Grey in Winter (Michelmas) and Green in Spring (Easter) or in "household colours" (which could vary year on year so they are not as hard and fast as some military/heraldry historians would like).

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The question of how firm specific colours were to individual Lords is a Looooong topic for discussion.

I'm not suggesting that 'livery colours' didn't exist .. for example Edward IV's Household accounts list blue and purple or murrey (according to the cloth and rank of the recepient) for Household members, The Household accounts of Sir John Howard have large purchases of Blue cloth for livery issue ... but it's not all cut and dried ...

...in Richard III's Coronation some were issued white and green livery ... colours typically associated with the Tudors!
...Records for the Guild in London show frequent colour changes, sometimes almost annual ... the variation being greater earlier in the C15th.

but there is clear evidence of some kind of uniformity, accounts for purchases mention blue and murrey as does the Paston letters ...
As towchyng for your leveryes, ther can noon be gete heere of that coloure that ye wolde haue of nouther murrey nor blwe nor goode russettys vndrenethe iij s. the yerde at the lowest price, and yet is ther not j-nough of on clothe and coloure to serue you. And as for to be purveid in Suffolk it wolnot be purveide nought now a-yenst this tyme wythoute they had had warnyng at Michelmesse, as I am enformed. And the blissed Trenyté haue you in his kepyng. Wreten at Norweche on Seint Kateryn Day. Be your Margaret Paston

But returning to the issues in Edward IV's accounts for 1480 ... the highest ranking officers had scarlets and purple and cloth of gold issues, personal household seem to have had the blue and murrey issue but other officers had different issues again ... and here is an odd quirk .. having just said Gery for winter & green for summer(Gaston Phebus alludes to this apparantly and I have seen it elsewhere ... I'll work on the sources) ... well the Household accounts for Edward IV have other offiers in grey (Musterdevilliers) ... e.g.
To the Rentgeder of the mansions and tenementes apperteignyng and belanging unto the same Warderobe for his hole rewarde for gadering of the said rente and for the overseying of the reparacioon of the same Warderobe, and of the said mansions and tenementes, for his Somer liveree ayenst the fest of Witsontyde, the said xx{ti} yere of the moost noble reigne of oure said Souverain Lord the King, that is to witt, for alle the tyme of this accompte, Mustrevilers clothe, iiij yerdes.

I chose these officers as though not Foresters they are officials collecting rents etc. so officials of the Household in the couumnity.

Hope this all helps

quote:

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Originally posted by damien re: the Forester in Chaucer:

A buckle on his brest of silver shene.

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Just looked up another verions of this and found this variant on line 115:

A cristopher on his brest of silver sheene.

Just wondering if a 'cristopher' was indeed a buckle, or perhaps a pilgrim's badge of St. Christopher?

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