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Topic: Popular Dogs of the 15th century????
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Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2
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posted 03-20-2003 03:18 PM
    
My list comes from 'types' I have seen in visual references, though there are others here who can most likely cite written accounts.Talbot
Greyhound (came in various sizes)
Mastiff
Wolfhound
Deerhound
Water Spaniel
Lap dogs If you have access to Gaston Phebus' Treatise on Hunting (can be found on the Bibliotech National), it gives good visual representation of the myriad of 'types' available. I think we had a similar discussion on canines a while ago. I will see if I can dig up the thread. (No pun implied.)  Jenn -------------------- ad finem fidelis
Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged
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Dave Key
Member
Member # 17
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posted 03-21-2003 12:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fire Stryker:
My list comes from 'types' I have seen in visual references, though there are others here who can most likely cite written accounts.Talbot
Greyhound (came in various sizes)
Mastiff
Wolfhound
Deerhound
Water Spaniel
Lap dogs If you have access to Gaston Phebus' Treatise on Hunting (can be found on the Bibliotech National), it gives good visual representation of the myriad of 'types' available. I think we had a similar discussion on canines a while ago. I will see if I can dig up the thread. (No pun implied.) Jenn
Much though I love my Deerhounds the earliest specific reference to this dog which can genuinely be tied to the modern breed doesn't occur until the C16th. This is not because they didn't exist, but because of the way things were named. References from the period refer to ensuring that Greyhounds are matched to the task they are to perform ... from small to large for the Hart. So essentially a Deerhound would be (in all probability) referred to as a Greyhound. And a large Geyhound might be referred to as a Hart-hound or a Deer-Hound ... not necessarily because of breed (which is a very C19th thing) but because of type and suitability to a specific task. Interestingly the Kennel Club breed standard still refers to the Deerhound as a large rough coated Greyhound ... Also, being a Deerhound bigot, the Wolfhound is questionable as a distinct breed, at least not as seen today which is (much like the Deerhound but more so) a 'restored' breed. Cheers
Dave
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Jamie & Christine
Member
Member # 32
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posted 03-26-2003 10:44 PM
Folks,
I agree with Bill that mixed breeds are the way to go if you want to approximate a medieval dog. I rescued a brindle hound/mastiff/whatever mix that looks like he stepped out of Bruegel's "Hunters in the Snow". I recently met a rottwieler/lab mix that was a perfect running hound from Gaston Phebus. My wife scooped up a filthy, flea- ridden shi-tzu(sp?) mix from the middle of the street in the 'hood that, once rehabilitated, is identical to the little puff-ball dog in many of Albrect Durer's works.
So go to the local animal shelter and save some poor mutt's life. Any large breed(great dane, mastif, rott, etc. ) mix will make a convincing-looking "alaunt" . If you want a "lymer", find a bloodhound mix. Of course, grey-, deer-, or wolf- hounds ( or any cross-breed of ) would be great. A large shepherd, retriever, malamute, or husky mix (no blue eyes?) can look just like Gaston's mastiff. There is no need to spend a load of cash on a pure-bred.
Good luck,
Jamie
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David Meyer
Member
Member # 245
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posted 05-19-2003 10:48 AM
Hello all -For a wonderful iconographical source of hunting methods in the 15th C., be sure to see Ms. fr. 616 of the Bibliothèque nationale in Paris. It is available in facsimile from the Akademische Druck und Verlagsanstalt Graz, Austria ISBN 3-201-01612-8. This publisher also has a website, but I don’t have the address handy. I just purchased the facsimile, and it is one absolutely beautiful book. The text dates to 1389, but the 82 miniatures (!!!) date to the beginning of the 15th C. They show many different hunting scenarios, and the various tactics and animals used. I was surprised to find camouflaged hunters, horses, and cart (folio 114)! Looks like the period equivalent of the ATVs used to haul deer out of the woods today. This manuscript may be available online at the Bibliothèque nationale website. Hope that helps David
Registered: Nov 2001 | IP: Logged
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Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2
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posted 05-19-2003 12:04 PM
Is this the Gaston Phoebus facsimile?If it is, it is a very nice book. -------------------- ad finem fidelis
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David Meyer
Member
Member # 245
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posted 05-19-2003 08:48 PM
I'll have to check the catalog at the shop again. The publisher's website lists many of the volume titles I remember as "vergriffen," which is to say, "out of print."I ordered two of them today at the bookshop without trouble, so either the website needs updating (which I think is the case) or the store has an out-of-date catalog. One of the facsimiles I ordered was an early 15th C. falconing manual that was highly illuminated. More details soon. Regards David
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David Meyer
Member
Member # 245
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posted 05-20-2003 06:24 AM
Found the series on an English web site:
http://www.balogh.com/austria/adeva4.html The series is called "Glanzlichter der Buchkunst" and there are 11 volumes altogether. The site only lists nine - perhaps two are out of print now. Band 1. Goslarer Evangeliar. (Stadtarchiv Goslar). 1991. reprint from about 1230/40. 258 pp., 38 page commentary by R. Kroos & F. Steenbock. 15 X 19.5 cm. ISBN 3-201-01545-8. Band 2. Bible Moralisée. (Österreich Nationalbibliothek). 1992. reprint from the 13th century. 136 pp., 156 pages of commentary by R. Haussherr. 14.5 X 19.5 cm. ISBN 3-201-01574-1). Band 3. Das Stundenbuch der Maria von Burgund. (Österreich Nationalbibliothek). 1993. reprint from 1477. Psalms and prayer book. 380 pp., 72 page commentary by F. Unterkircher. 14.3 X 19.5 cm. ISBN 3-201-01600-4. Band 4. Das Jagdbuch des Mittelalters. (Bibliotheque nationale, Paris). 1994. reprint from the Middle Ages. Book about hunting in the Middle Ages. 276 pp., 64 page commentary by N. Thomas & W. Schlag. 15 X 19.5 cm. ISBN 3-201-01612-8. Band 5. Das Reichenauer Evangelistar. (Kupferstichkabinett der Staatlichen Museen Preuß. Kulturbesitz Berlin). 1995. reprint from 1050 and 1060. 182 pp., 66 page commentary by P. Bloch. 15 X 19.5 cm. ISBN 3-201-01643-8. Band 6. Medicina Antiqua. (Codex Vindobonensis 93). Graz 1996. The codex dates from the first half of the 13th century, Italy. One or more illustrations in nearly every page, altogether more than 400. 322 pp. (161 folios). 13.6 X 19.5 cm.. ISBN 3-201-01659-4. Band 7. Speculum Humanae Salvationis. (Stift Kremsmünster).1997. This book is a reprint of the oldest bilingual hand-made text of holy images. 124 pp., 192 miniatures, 68 page commentary by W. Neumüller. 15 X 19.5 cm. ISBN 3-201-01670-5. Band 8/1 & 8/2. Der Wiener Dioskurides. (Österreich Nationalbibliothek). 2 volumes. Complete facsimile reproduction in reduced size, size: 15 x 19,5 cm, cloth, in slip case. vol. 8/1: 486 pages pictures (fol. 1r - 243v), commentary 92 pages from Otto Mazal. Vol. 8/2: 484 pages pictures (fol. 244r - 485v), commentary: 80 pages from Otto Mazal. Vol. 8/1, 10/1998, ISBN: 3-201-01699-3. Vol. 8/2, due 10/1999, ISBN: 3-201-01725-6. set price $220.00 [ 05-20-2003: Message edited by: David Meyer ]
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posted 03-21-2003 05:02 PM
posted 03-22-2003 09:04 AM
) But it might be more along the lines of what may have been seen at the heels of his lordship.
posted 05-18-2003 01:58 PM
