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Author Topic: Houpellandes 1300-1350's ?
Bernard
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posted 08-14-2002 02:33 AM     Profile for Bernard     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This is my first post and I hope I am posting this in the most correct area. I am looking for any help locating any pictures or references of men's houpellandes from 1300 to 1350s. I would like to have one made, or make it myself but I am having trouble finding any resources to base what I would like my garb to look like. Thanks for any help.
Bernard

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chef de chambre
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posted 08-14-2002 11:12 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Bernard, and Welcome to FireStryker!

Most of our posters who are seamstresses are away at Pennsic, and posting to the board has been a little slow over the past week due to so many members absent as well. I can give you a inexpert answer, and hopefully someone more knowlegeable will chime in later.

It is my understanding that the houpeland, that is to say an overgown worn principly in conjuction with a doublet, is principly a 15th century item of dress, not appearing in England until either late in the reign of Richard II, or Early Henry VI, then remaining a staple of male dress (and feminine dress as well, although with a differing cut) until sometime during the Tudor era. Early houpelands differ radicaly in cut from ones post 1420 (the cut remaining similar from that point till they went out of use), with either large, belled sleeves with elaborate dagging, to bag sleeves baggy fom elbow to wrist, gathering together at the wrist.

I believe there were two radical changes of dress for the aristocracy during the era you are seeking to portray (50 years is a long span - a good lifetime for a man likely to be killed in accident, war, or in an epidemic - please note that people allowed to live out their lives without these outside factors could and did live into their 60's and 70's, occassionaly into their 80's, and the very rare centinarian - just like they did a generation or more back in the US, till medical care has expanded the average lifespan into the 70's today), so you will not get a consistant dress across the lifetime of a man born, say 1300, and perished c. 1350 - then again, how many people dress today as they did during the 1950's? You are lucky to have only two large changes across this span.

It is my understanding that through most of the High Middle Ages, a mans basic costume consisted of a tunic - the more voluminous the cut, and expensive the material the wealthier the man - and a pair of chausses and brais, with a variety of overgowns an surcoats (not neccessarily heraldic, and I am talking daily dress here), trimmed or lined with furs and the like, again dependant on wealth and station of the wearer. Sometime early in Edward III's reign, the costume of the aristocracy changed (but not the peasantry until near the end of his reign), to a more form fitting cote-hardi, cut to mid thigh, and getting shiorter as time went on, with chausses becoming longer and longer until they were split hose.

I think you will have to narrow down your time span to at least a decade, if you want accurate dress, or you will have to have diffferent sets of dress to represent different eras. The armour changes radicaly across that timespan as well, so there is more incenive to narrow down your time-frame.

--------------------

Bob R.


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J.K. Vernier
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posted 08-14-2002 01:22 PM     Profile for J.K. Vernier   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
According to Stella Mary Newton, Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince, the earliest more-or-less datable reference to the houppellande is probably a satirical poem by Froissart which seems to date from the early 1360s.There is ample pictorial evidence for them in the following decade, but not before.
It is, of course, worth considering whether the houppellande is in fact a radically new type of garment, or simply an evolution of loose gowns which existed before. The Froissart poem suggests that the houppellande was something of a sensation when it appeared, but remember that this is just after the period when the tight-fitting cote-hardie was at its fashionable peak. The houppellande is a reversal of the fashion for tight-fitting clothes, and this is perhaps inevitable both because trends tend to occillate like that, and because certain fashionable men may have found it increasingly difficult to maintain the youthful silhouette of the cote-hardie.

[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: J.K. Vernier ]


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Bernard
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posted 08-14-2002 07:15 PM     Profile for Bernard     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Chef,
You have already helped more then you know and thank you very much for giving me your time. I wasn't sure if a large time span would help or hinder my search and also wasn't sure whether the houpellandes came into style after about 1350-1360's or before. Perhaps 1350-1370 would have been a better time frame and there is also the matter of the location.
Perhaps a better questions would be what would a English noblemen be wearing around 1360-1365 and for that I suspect I shall have to obtain a few books to study from. Even though the time 1360-1375 can be a very hard period to portray in both clothing and armour, perhaps especially armour, I love it because of all the changes taking place. Someday I hope to build a historical group specifically around that time and I want to do it right so I guess I have a lot of work.
Thanks very much.
Bernard.

J.K. Vernier
I have been thinking of purchasing Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince (and a few hundred other books) having read a few good reviews of it. If you don't mind my asking what is your opinion on it?
Thank you,
Bernard


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AnnaRidley
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posted 08-15-2002 09:55 AM     Profile for AnnaRidley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well with 1360-1365 you have the advantage of one extremely good source available that pertains directly to fashions of the English court. You will denfinately want to own this book:

Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince: A Study of the Years 1340-1365
by Stella Mary Newton
163 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.46 x 10.82 x 8.61
Boydell & Brewer; ISBN: 085115767X

It is available from amazon for $24.50.
It is a very dense examination of the wardrobe accounts and other documentary sources about fashion trends in the english court. There were some substatial changes that she notes. The only problem I have with the book is that it is document based and has no corresponding pictures. Still given your professed interest of 1350-60 English Nobiity it is a must have for any serious research.

I would also recommend the gothic sections of the Web Gallery of Art as a reasonable starting place for images. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/list/zgothic.html#gothic

Mitake.


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Bernard
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posted 08-15-2002 06:12 PM     Profile for Bernard     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
AnnaRidley
Thanks very much for the review. I shall probably purchase it even with the lack of pictures and keep searching. Thanks for the link too.
Bernard

Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged

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