I recently acquired a very nice sword for my harness, but I confess I'm at a loss to understand how to wear the bloody thing (and yes, I'm aware that I would almost never actually *wear* it, but I want to figure out how to make the scabbard and belt, etc.). I have a longsword which is a copy of an English weapon c. 1370.

I've spent weeks looking at a variety of effigies and MS illuminations, and I even spent a few hours with Mac going over pictures, and I still don't have it figured out.

There's a scabbard on p. 91 of Edge and Paddock (it's published in Oakshotte, too, but with just the fittings, not the scabbard) which shows an almost 15th-century approach; the fittings (which, unlike the scabbard pictured, are contemporary with the sword at about 1350) seem designed for the back half of the sword belt to be split, while the front has only one strap. This arrangement seems most logical, as it would cause the sword to be held at a convenient angle.

Unfortunately, I can't find a single MS illumination or effigy that shows this arrangement, which makes me suspicious.

In most of the effigies I've found from the latter half of the century the sword appears to be simply glued to the wearer at plaque belt level (ditto with the dagger). There are some effigies, however, which show a very thin waist belt rising diagonally to the right hip, but these are comparatively rare, and show no means of holding the sword at an angle. I've tried wearing a sword that hangs straight down, and while it's great fun to the onlookers who get to watch your scabbard swing between your legs and trip you, it's no fun to wear.

In one of his books Oakshotte shows a hinged plaque from a plaque belt with a dependant hook. He claims this was used to hang a scabbard (implying a simple ring on the back of the scabbard), however Mac was quick to point out that this piece is long enough that the scabbard would hang well below the spot at which the effigies seem to show the sword hanging relative to the plaque belt; he feels it was used for some other purpose and that Oakshotte has probably misidentified it.

What I'd *like* to discover is that the 15th-century-style arrangement is accurate for 1370. Can anyone support or dispute this? If not, what other comments can anyone add?

It's really sad: The pictures from just before and jsut after this period are very clear vis-a-vis how the scabbards were attached and worn, just not the specific period I want!

Thanks in advance for anything people might have for me.

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I don't spend much of my 14th C time wearing a scabbard as most of the time I am either jousting or in 'civvies', and I don't wear a sword for either of these. When jousting it sits on my weapons rack waiting to be called for, "hmm, I think I'll try a 4 Iron on this hole".

So to sum up,,,I have been no help at all.

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Originally posted by Rodric:
Once you start to have a belt with a bit of weight in it, like a plaque belt, the last thing you want is a scabbarded sword adding even more. I must admit I cheat in this regard and wear a later period belt and scabbard around my waist, this holds the sword at a convinent angle and I don't spend all my time tripping over the scabbard, also when I am on horse I can adjust it to be comfortable for the horse.

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Mac and I were speculating that the plaque belt must be laced to the garment beneath it; there's simply no other way for them to stay up when worn as low as they are in the effigies (I tend to cheat and wear my plaque belt a little too high, although still well below my waist, but you're right that I couldn't do that with a sword hanging from it). That being the case, if the scabbard were hung directly from the plaque belt it would be supported by the same ties that support the belt.

If that's the case, however, we once again seem to be back to having the sword hang vertically, with the attendant consequences I described in my first post. Mac thinks they didn't hang vertically, and that that was simply the way they looked in effigies, but if he's right, I can see no mechanism by which they could be caused to hang at an angle.

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I can see no mechanism by which they could be caused to hang at an angle.

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Gravity and balance?

Yeah, you don't see any lower strap connection, so it'd be hard to get them to hange at a fixed angle unless there were some sort of semi-rigid hinge arraingement.

UNLESS, the long scabbarded swords are for mounted use, in which case, they could hang vertically and not be a hinderance...

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Originally posted by Jeff Johnson:
Gravity and balance?

Yeah, you don't see any lower strap connection, so it'd be hard to get them to hange at a fixed angle unless there were some sort of semi-rigid hinge arraingement.

UNLESS, the long scabbarded swords are for mounted use, in which case, they could hang vertically and not be a hinderance...

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Hi Jeff,

Actually, I've considered your *exact* point, and I'm not sure what to think. You're right, it might be just a mounted thing... but remember, in this period the English fought almost exclusively on foot, not on horseback... so what did they do when they dismounted? And these are longswords, not arming swords, so they would be useful to an armored man at arms.

The funny thing is that the MS illuminations aren't any clearer on this subject. I know that men at arms didn't run around wearing swords all the time like they were in a bad Robin Hood movie, but they must have worn them some of the time; why don't we see it? Or do we and I'm just missing it (which happens a lot, I'm ashamed to admit)?

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[ 07-07-2002: Message edited by: Woodcrafter ]

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The hard part is finding someone to make decent fittings - chapes, throats, suspension bands. Know anyone who might be able to do that Mark? (hint hint) I'd settle for a nice bronze chape...

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Scabbard:
NOUN: A sheath, as for a dagger or sword.
TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: scab·bard·ed, scab·bard·ing, scab·bards
To put into or furnish with such a sheath.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English scauberc, scabbard, from Old French escauberc, possibly of Germanic origin. See sker-1 in Appendix I.

b. compound *skr-berg-, “sword protector,” scabbard (*berg-, protector; see bhergh-1). scabbard, from Old French escauberc, scabbard, possibly from a Germanic source akin to Old High German scarberc, scabbard. Both a and b from Germanic *skr-.

ENTRY: bhergh-1
DEFINITION: To hide, protect. Oldest form *bherh-, becoming *bhergh- in centum languages. 1a. Germanic compound *h(w)als-berg- (see kwel-1); b. Germanic compound *skr-berg- (see sker-1). Both a and b from Germanic *bergan, to protect.

Board - ETYMOLOGY: Middle English bord, from Old English. NOUN: 1. A long flat slab of sawed lumber; a plank. 2. A flat piece of wood or similarly rigid material adapted for a special use.

Mark, please let us know if & when you start selling the scabbard fittings. If they work for 15th C and have the right dimensions, put me down for 3. I have some scabbards of my own to build!

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There are depictions of common soldiers wearing them while killing peasants and looting houses. So it would seem to me if you did not have a servant to carry your sword and you needed your hands free, then you would belt the scabbard.

I have made scabbards before and may be able to offer some insight. There are two methods you can use:

One is to take two cuts of quarter sawn or split wood, 3/8 inch thick, a half inch wider, and a quarter inch longer than your sword blade. Meticulously chisel out the wood so that the blade sits in perfectly. The problem with this is wood expands and contracts. So either you can whip out your sword, or no manner of tugging is going to get that baby out.

The second method is to take two cuts of quarter sawn or split wood, 1/4 inch thick, a half inch wider, and a quarter inch longer than your sword blade. Sandwiched between these two slats are two narrow pieces that will lay on the outside of the edges of your sword blade. These pieces should be thicker than the blade. Initially they can hang outside of the scabbard outline. One slat should be outlined to the blade, and then clamped to the second slat and both cut to match. Then the sandwich filler pieces are inserted, glue it all together. Do this with the blade in the work, as you can ensure that it is loose and free to move. Once your clamps are on, you may have difficulty removing the blade. Once the scabbard is dry, you may draw knife it to shape and clean it up. Ensure a small hole is placed in the tip for moisture to escape through.

There are references to warriors who rattled their swords to show displeasure or aggression. This is only possible in a loose casing. Of course I cannot find one now that I am looking.

The outer cover would be there to repel moisture as much as hold the wood together. As such you can cover it in any way you deem best, whether it is linen, parchment, leather, cloth. I have no reference to actual coverings.

There are surviving sword buckles with loops to take a hook. Clothing could have clothing hooks sewn on the outside to support both belt and scabbard. Plaque belts were also made with hollow mounts, this reduces the weight of the belt, as well as the cost.

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Not all scabbards are lined. Not all scabbards have inner scabbards for smaller knives.

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are we talking about swords or knives?

daniel

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Db

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Sorry for the confusion.

To throw anothe curve here...
The difference I believe between a knife and sword scabbard is the supposed stiffening in the sword scabbard. However what evidence is there that sword scabbards were made of wood and not just leather? What is the purpose of a sword scabbard? To be able to hang it off your belt? To protect the blade from water or accidental dulling? And in a battle, if you were wearing the sword scabbard, would it not be better if it was non-ridgid? After the battle, you would not have a broken sword scabbard to try and stuff you blade into.

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Of all the sword scabbards I have researched (I am compiling a picture file that is already up to 400 images) pretty much every one that has details of the construction, details a wooden core. This includes Roman and earlier scabbards, with metal frames and plates over a wooden core. The wood also protects the blade from scratching and scuffing by the metal. Linings are not necessary, but seem to have been common, and I suspect were largely there to hold oil in contact with the blade, and exclude moisture. A well fitted scabbard is a sealed and stable environment for the blade, and a blade could potentially be left scabbarded for years without any rusting. If left in the open air, even without touching it, temperature and humidity variations will eventually cause rust to appear.

On the 14th century suspensions that look like 15th century. Oakeshott says that this style is most popular from c. 1310-1340, and after 1380. He has a drawing of the sword and scabbard fitting you mention. BUT, he also has a photo (plate 46 in Sowrd in the Age of Chivalry) of a sword (thought to be type XIIIb with the a very similar arrangment. It was found in a tomb dated at 1329. I'd say the practice is pretty securly dated to the early-mid 14th century.

On the style that looks like the scabbard is glued to the hip belt. A friend of mine is a medieval scholar and is doing some research on 14th century military dress accessories. He says he has personally seen a couple surviving "hooks" that are reputed to be hangers from this period. The idea being that the hook is attached to the belt and a ring is on the back of the scabbard. Or the other way around. He has some interesting observations and theories on these hooks. They first appear when hand and half sword start becoming the dominant weapon of the knightly class. When they first appear, they are mostly seen in conjuction with hand and ahalf swords, while most contemporary arming swords still use the ring suspension style (usually a two ring style on a single locket). Later, most all swords use this style in conjunction with the hip belt. His theory is that the hook and ring method would allow the quick and easy removal of the scabbard from the belt when either a) transferring it to the saddle, or b) going into battle. In this way, the knight could still show off his fancy (and expensive) plaque belt without the interference of the large scabbard, though when this tecnique first appears, most belts are still worn a bit higher and aren't "hip belts" proper.

Dunno... but it seems like a decent theory. He promises to clue me in when he finishes his research and writes a paper.

Strongbow