A side issue would be, has any one ever seen information on climate in the 14th century, average temps and rainfalls?

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Nikki covered the climate issue pretty succinctly here: http://www.wolfeargent.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=000002

As for the calendar, most countries didn't change from the Julian to the Gregorian calander until 1582. That doesn't affect the period you're referring to, and even then there was only a net "loss" of about 11 days which wouldn't have affected the season the way you describe.

For more info on the Gregorian and Julian calendar, see "Calenars throught the Ages" here- http://webexhibits.org/calendars/

Dunno- anyone else have any thoughts?

Thank you for your help. The poem I was discussing is puts the tilling season in February, The planting season in March and April, July the hay harvest and August the grain harvest. October and November the planting of winter wheat. I do not know much about farming so I can not tell you if this is consistent with today's practices. How much of a temp loss verses these numbers do you think they experienced? 3-4 degrees?

Here is the info on temps: I found that average temps in Europe run about 10 degrees warmer in February and 20 degrees cooler in July and August. This does make much more sense, I included New York and Detroit because I have lived near both of them so they make it easier for me to compare.

Jan Feb Jul Aug
Paris °C 3.7 3.7 19 18.7
°F 38.7 38.7 66.2 65.7
Rainfall 2.1 2.1 2 2.4

London °C 3.8 3.9 16.5 16.2
°F 38.8 39 61.7 61.2
Rainfall 2.4 1.4 1.8 1.7

Bord °C 5.6 6.7 20.4 20
eaux °F 42.1 44.1 68.7 68
Rainfall 3 2.5 2.1 2.3

Rome °C 7.1 8.2 24.4 24.1
°F 44.8 46.8 75.9 75.4
Hi 56.3 57.9 85.5 86.4
Low 38.1 39 61.5 62.4

Antwerp °C 3.1 2.9 17.9 17.6
°F 37.6 37.2 64.2 63.7

Tolouse °C 4.6 5.8 21.1 20.8
°F 40.3 42.4 70 69.4
Rainfall 1.9 1.8 1.8 1.9

Lyon °C 2 3.6 20.4 19.6
°F 35.6 38.5 68.7 67.3
Rainfall 1.7 1.6 2.6 3.1

NewYork °C -0.4 -0.1 24.3 23.3
°F 31.3 31.8 75.7 73.9
Hi 38.8 40.5 81.1 80.1
Low 23.9 25.7 66 65.1
Rainfall 5.6 3 4.5 3.3

Detroit °C -3.6 -3.1 22.9 21.7
°F 25.5 26.4 73.2 71.1
Hi -0.4 0 28.1 26.8
Low 31.3 32 82.6 80.2
Rainfall 1.3 1.5 3 3.6

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Each line is for JAN FEB JUL AUG

C = Celsius
F = Ferenheit (sp?)
Hi = average daily hi
Low = average daily low
Rainfall is in inches

I have the entire year for each city saved in an Excel document if any one wants it.

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I grew up in a heavily agricultural area of New Jersey. February seems early for tilling, because the ground was always frozen until the end of March. I seem to remember tilling and planting around Easter, the end of July into August for hay and September for grain. October and November for winter wheat sounds right.

If it was 10 degrees warmer in February, the ground would not have been frozen and the tilling could begin. Modern (i.e. mechanized) farming methods speed things up considerably, so I imagine it's not outside the realm of possibility that what takes a day or 3 with a tractor and a disc might take 2 months by hand.

For what its worth, I looked at the monthy activities portrayed in "Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Berry".

January - feasting / tournamenting
February - snow covered landscape, woodgathering, infamous picture of man and woman warming their neither bits in front of the fire
March-Tilling, pruning
April- flower picking
May - hunting
June- Haymaking
July - grain harvesting, sheep shearing
August- hunting (although the commentary says "it seems that the calendar of TTH is the only one in which August is represented by a hunting scene-- the usual theme is the threshing of the corn [grain])
September - grape harvest
October - Sowing
November - acorn harvest
December - pig slaughter

Brenna

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The commentary compared this calendar to other medieval calendars and noted when the depicted activities differed significantly, such as the activity for August.

Gwen

Thanks for all of your help.

This makes it a lot easier read period literature and to understand why events occured at certain times of the year. The climate made certain activities possible at different times of the year than what I am used to. In addition, the difference in the planting calander would have affected the labor pool available to begin military adventures etc.

Thanks

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Is that right? I thought military campaigns followed their own schedule. I'd be curious to know how much of the soldiery was normally drawn from the agricultural worforce. I understand there were no "standing armies" and that soldiers usually had other occupations, but how often were the soldiers / farmworkers drawn away from the fields? The campaign statistics seem to indicate that campaigns were short lived, averaging about 12 days at a time. While that might be an inconvenience, I don't think it would disrupt the farming schedule that much. I do know that there were exceptions, but I wonder what the overall effect was.

Bob, if you plan to address this you may want to make it into a new thread so it doesn't take this thread off track and / or get lost down here.

My theory on labor comes from a recent reading of Froissart. I left the book with the impression that a large number of English campaigns started there planning phase in the winter months to be ready to depart in the spring. Most were than delayed until late summer or early fall. I was looking at the labor issue as having more to do with getting supplies, weapons and armour etc. for the army, than for making up the members. These are generalizations and I plan on going back and looking at the specific campaigns of Crecy, Poitiers and some of the Flemish and Norman campaigns for specifics.

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Cheers

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