Check out the male patron in:
St Eligius in His Workshop
1449
Oil on wood, 98 x 85 cm
Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York
http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/c/christus/

He appears to be wearing a plackard (forgive me if I am using the wrong terminology here)of black cloth as part of his "under-doublet". I was recently informed that this style was not in place till the late 1400's, yet here it is, smack dab in the middle of the century. Note that the man in the mirror reflection (a different man, strangely enough---unless this is not supposed to be a mirror) is wearing the same fashion.

Any thoughts or conjecture as to the construction of this garment? How widespread this fashion might have been?

I don't think I have ever seen anyone interpret this style into a clothing reproduction.

Thanks!
Tim

The reflection is of two passers by in the street, and the artist is merely showing off his skill with depicting detail and reflective surfaces.

I believe what you are seeing is not some seperate 4th layer of clothing, but rather a doublet (it can clearly be seen in the passerby's portrait that the collar matches the cloth below his breast) that has been cut to emphasise the shirt underneath. You can see the point closure at the neck, and it is nearly identical to the fashion shown in the Van Eyk portrait of Philip the Good, which I believe dates to the 50's.

Subtle changes in 'cut of cloth' by the upper classes were common, which in some courts like Burgundy's could be based on the season (you had to do something to offset all that black). Middle class fashions were far more stable, in the records of the guild hall courts in London there are cases of apprentices and journeymen being taken to task for not wearing gowns of an appropriate length, and being refused their inheritance until they 'became sad and wise'. The peasantry's general fashion could linger on unchanged for nearly a century (although there would be subtle differences). Check out any of Brughels paintings of peasants from the mid 16th c., and you will find threm dressed much like their great-great-great Grandfathers and Grandmothers, with very subtle differences like the cut of the shoe, or perhaps the neckline of a shirt.

So in my opinion (which will bow to those with more knowledge on the subject), you are seeing a doublet that is cut to emphasise the shirt underneath, and is closed with points so the wearer can adjust it to the season and whims of fashion. In the Talhoffer engravings from the 1467 book, many close cut doublets can be seen with point closure that when loosened show the shirt beneath. The sleeves are held on with points as well, and can be loosened to help the wearers agility, or taken off I imagine if the heat of the day should warrent it. I should poijnt out that the first reference we have to a sleevless doublet is the 1480(2?) ordinance of Louis XI mentioning them to be worn under padded jacks so as not to hinder the mobility of the infantrymen wearing them.

Hope this helps.

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So, are you saying that the black piece is part of the doublet? That's what I meant to say. But I didn't think this sort of doublet came about until the 1490's or so. It looks like the sort you see in the early 16th century, with almost a flap or stomacher that spans the front opening at or below the bottom of the sternum.

Is the red collar attached to the top garment (the gown, or coat) or to the base garment (the doublet)? Any guesses?

Do you know of any paintings that show this sort of doublet without a gown being worn over (so that the details of the doublet may be better seen)?

[ 05-07-2001: Message edited by: Yeoman ]

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I say underneath but this is difficult to judge, bt in similar, later illustrations it is clearly beneath the lacing of the doublet (e.g. a swordsman in on the St Ursula eliquary.
In later illustrations from France (e.g. Rene of Anjou's Book of the Tournament) and England (the Eton Murals) a 'stomacher' is being worn over the doublet ... this reaches to the throat, leaving only the doublet collar showing. Personally I think this probably a 'petticote' as described in Sir John Fastolfe's inventory ...

"Item j Pettecote of lynen clothe soffyd with flokys
Item j Petticote of lynen clothe withought slyves"

In John Russell's Book of Nurture the Chamberlain is advised to prepare, amongst other garments,
"...First hold out to him his tunic, then his doublet while he puts in his arms, and have his stomacher well aired to keep off harm."

In this case tunic is probably his shirt. This seems to imply the stomacher is over the doublet, but this may not be the case as the doublet is only laced later, so the stomacher is ready if required.

Also in the Howard's accounts for the 1466 there is
"Item, he same day my mastyr paid fore a stomakere of velvet, ij s. iiij d."

What is important is not whether such a garment was worn, but would it be worn in the context of the person you wish to portray. I'm not sure how widespread this fashion was ... or how specific to the wearers degree ... I'd want more research first.

You need to be wary of assuming that the colour of the doublet collar necessarily has to match that of the doublet itself. There are several references to a different (typically finer) cloth being used for the collar, and this is evident in several of the pastoral scenes of mid-fifteenth flemish Mss illustrations.

In the instances you mention the collar is a part of the doublet ... but (as the figure in the forground illustrates the gown could also have a collar .... then again it might not .... and then again it could be a half-collar.

As to whether there are other illustrations of this 'type' of doublet ... basically this is a normal doublet (probably with short puffed sleeves to padd the pleated shoulder of the gown worn over it. The fact that it is worn 'undone' is a matter of style in the wearing rather than in the construction per se. As it is a well-to-do gentleman the cut will be finer, so the loosening of the opening more pronounced but it would still be closeable (probably)

What I would need to know to be able to help more is precisely what date, where and what degree is the person you wish to make the doublet for ...

Cheers,
Jenn

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