Just starting a topic to "prime" this forum. It occurs to me to ask how we should go about portraying the Religious aspects of our personas life?

I am pretty sure that Medieval man (and woman of course) were far more openly religious than we are in todays society - even if the religion may be of a shallower bent. It would probably be displayed to a point we would find uncomfortable today.

How do we go about showing this at our events? One of the nicest moments at the first Bates Farm event that I had the priviledge of attending, was Brother Geoffrey leading us in a series of Paters and Aves on Sunday. It gave me more of a feel of "being there" than many other things I experienced - although it was all quite nice - weather non-withstanding. Unfortunately, this profoundly "Medieval moment" was not seen by the public.

I think it important as we attempt to give the public a "slice" of Medieval life, that they be made aware of the pervasivness of Religion. I am also at odds to how to go about it. An obviously excellent way to go about it that we haven't had the oppertunity to do, would be to have opposing forces at a battle be shriven before the fight. At least we could kneel down and make the sign of the cross (with you Englishmen{me too}drawing a cross on the ground and kissing it).

Anyhow, it's a perplexing problem of how to show it, with it seeming natural, or not just "part of a show".

Commentary most welcome !

I think that depends on who you are. If you would consider for a moment the Angevin Plantagenets of the 12th century, it is clear that they were religious when it suited them. Now go across the continent and look at Master Gerard de Ridefort, head of the Templars until 1191. His faith was fanatical enough to rival any modern televangelist!

Geoffrey has taken this portrayal in his teeth and is running with it for his life. We have offered him the option of doing another portrayal whenever it suits him but he always refuses- seems he's really grooving on doing the monk thing.

I was raised Catholic and I swear I get more out of Geoffrey's prayer services than I *ever* did in church. I have to cross myself when I see him saying prayers in the middle of the day- it just seems so natural and right.

Gwen

No doubt about it, some people were as a-religious as today. On the other hand, they had to keep up at least the appearance of being s good Christian - or answer for it. Ever read any of the transcripts of the interegations of the schismatics captured during the Albegensian (sp?) Crusade?

A lot of "popular religion" consisted of mere superstitious practices. I have read some interesting 15th c. priests complaints of their parishioners not attending daily mass (excepting Sunday a couple of times a month. Rather, they would poke their head in the porch door to see the painted St. Christopher, as a glimpse of him during the day was supposed to prevent dying a "bad death" (a sudden death unshriven).

On the other hand, the description of the Middle Ages as the "age of faith" is an apt one. Perhaps a greater percentage of the population than ever before or since placed a simple, absolute faith in God and the Church - even if they were incapable of understanding the niceties of their theology. The vast sums of money spent on church building, even throughout the immediate pre-reformation, shows a concern for matters spiritual.

As an example, throughout the 15th c., there is scarcely a parish church in England that didn't recieve improvements, in the form of new porches, bell towers,rood screens, and other improvements. These improvements were paid for by the common populace, the nobility and gentry confining their efforts to private chantry colleges - for the good of their own soul, not the benifit of other parishioners. People only spend money on what is important to them.

Food for thought !

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Bob R.

I think the fact that many groups out there (especially the SCA, Adrian Empire, etc.) ignore the religious aspects of the time is a grave disservice to the history and lives of our ancestors. Religion was important to them because, often times, that was the one really good thing they found in an otherwise harsh life. To pretend it didn't have an effect on them simply because religion is no longer viewed with the fervor or favor it once was is wrong, and a misrepresentation of history.

Having reviewed my post, I know that it sounds perhaps a little harsh, but it really is a pet peeve of mine when people claim to be completely accurate and then leave out such an important part of a persona's history. I am not an overly religious person (though I have my faith), but even if I was completely lacking of faith, I would feel wrong about such a misportrayal.

Just my .02

Woeg

Here, here! (or is it "hear, hear"?)

I doubt if you'll hear any objections to what you've said in this crowd.

Noone in the RedCo. is devout in the modern world, but we are all religious, if not devout, in reenactment. As you say, it was an important part of life then, whether it is due to cultural brainwashing or viewed as an ultimate escape from the harsh realities of life.

Well said.

Religion was very important to our ancestors (even if some only paid lip service to the Almighty). Just look at the holy places around the world, especially in Europe and the Middle East. The structures are magnificent in structure and design and usually dominate a hill or a central location indicating how important it was to the society that built it.

Put the guns away, I"M ONLY JOKING!!!!

Oh False alarm!

Sorry!

I'll go back to sleep now!

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For God, King and Lancaster

Here is how I try to handle the religious aspects of my 'persona' - I try to look at it from his viewpoint, or "get into his head". Bear with me a bit while I tell you about the person I portray.

I look at it from the point of him being a reasonably educated gentleman who seeks to advance himself through the profession of arms. He is not a professional religious type, but he was clearly brought up to be as devout as any 'decent' person of his station. I think that he would hold to the commonly held viewpoints - to wit:

-He does not doubt the existance of God
-He does not question the mission of the Church or it's role in moral determination, or it's ruling on doctrine, or it's role in Salvation.

Paired off with -

-He is a professional soldier, and does not always have the time to be as attentive to religious matters as he ought (not that he doesn't care).

-He does put faith in God & the Saints, especially as he goes into harms way.

So - as Steven/Etienne, I am somebody who 'just accepts' things - of course they are that way! He does not question (or think much) about his faith - it is just there, sometimes more in the background. It does exist, and he places great reliance on it. His mind turns to religious matters often before he places his life in potential peril, and he seeks divine intervention at such times.

On the negative side, he doesn't attend Mass every day because his life is too busy - although he tries once a week. He would never go into battle unshriven. He considers himself a good son of the Church.

I try to show this in my portrayal. The only visible signs of his Religious conviction are a prayer placed on his harness (Mater Dei Memento Me - unfortunately misspelled), and a small religious medal he wears in his hat IHS (Iesus Humanitas Salvatorum) to remind himself of his faith, and as a talisman as much as anything else. He doesn't wear pilgrims badges, because he isn't a pilgrim. He will say prayers once a day in his quiet time, and he will attend services in camp when offered. He will commit himself/his soul to God prior to any combat.

So it is a quiet but present faith for him. He would be outraged at the revealed presence of schismatics, heritics, or outright pagans - it would spur him to some action - possibly the attempt to detain the offenders in order to turn them over to a higher authority.

I hope this is of interest/help, and would welcome any commentary.

We have a gentleman in our local group who portrays a 14th century Benedictine. He has given me much insight on the mindset of the medieval person's view of their place in the universe. In many ways, it can be argued that they felt closer to God and the Saints than any one person living in Western society would today.

I find it helpful in my portrayal of a 12th century Templar (and, from the mindset of a modern Roman Catholic) to actually do the Paternostres prescribed in the Rule. He would call upon St. Michael, George and Maurice to intercede for him in battle. He would use a rosary (if he were allowed to own one), and would not neglect the hours.

Whenever there is a mass held (pretty rare occasions at the few SCA events we attend), I would go, and partake of communion. After all, Robert' de Tyre is merely an extention of myself, and my experiment in how I would act as a 12th century man. It seems to me that you can't truly learn how people would have acted and thought in the 12th century if you approached them from a 21st century perspective only.

Of course, I catch a lot of flack for even wearing a red cross on my surcoat from my so-called "fellow re-enactors"....

Robert Coleman, Jr.

Oh now there's a great topic- how can people who portray Crisaders deny religion?? They're fighting a holy war for criminy's sake!!!

Don't be mean I didn't mean it

(Looks at Floor with hands behind back and shuffles feet)

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For God, King and Lancaster

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For God, King and Lancaster

I don't think you're going to get a response like that here, but if you can give Robert a good laugh once in a while, post on! God knows the man needs a laugh, as do we all. I'll cooperate by horking Pepsi out my nose and dousing the moniter- heck, maybe you can even get Bob R. to wet himself again.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Anne-Marie:
hey all from Anne-Marie

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sorry about that, I'm an idiot (hit the wrong button).

anyway, I was going to say that religion is a critical part of medieval life, and I agree that any real re-enactment is missing a huge piece if you leave it out.

BUT its far too easy for people to misunderstand and misinterpret. One mans "re-creation" is another mans "making fun of" or "heresy".

Bro Jeffrey does a fine job of treading that line by the way. Didnt make my little modern catholic mockometer twitch at all . (unlike "religion" at SCA events, but dont get me started!!!!!)

I would NEVER recommend doing any sort of religious display at an SCA event. Too easy for it to be misinterpreted by enthusiastic people who dont read much history.

how was that for tactful, Jenn

Jenn