A question for you textile guru's out there. I had always thought that fustian was a fabric made with a cotton warp and a linen weft. Now I hear it may be a linen weft and a wollen (cottoned wool?) warp. Any ideason which of these is accurate?

Question 2 is where can I get fustian? We are about to embark on making a munition grade brigandine, and I want to make sure I get the correct covering materiel. We were going to go with a tough hemp canvas for the actual foundation to 'nail' the plates to.

Thanks in advance guys.

Sorry for the delay ... and thi will have to be from memory if afraid ... anyway ...

Fustian is one of those cloths which people love to be 'clever' about and not wanting to be the exception here's my twopenneth worth.

There is no clear evidence in England during the C15th for any production of Fustian. The cloth being imported from the Low Countries however what evidence I hav seen sggests that the prime source of production was northern Italy and, more importantly, Southern Germany, centered on Ulm. From the records which survive from Milan and Germany it is fairly clear that the cloth was a combination of Linen and Cotton. And yes they did mean cotton.
There appear to have been variou grades and types of fustian produced so you can't say that's fustian because the weave is x by x etc. or even I suspect that it was brushed and felted like a modern moleskin ... although I suspect that what was brought into England was.

What is interesting is that although Fustian was a known cloth in the first half of the c15th (a doublet of fustian is listed in Sir John Fastolf's 1459 inventory in the Paston letters) this does not mean it was either widespread or necessarily cheap.

The import of Fustian only becomes large scale towards the end of the c15th and start of the c16th with the rise of the Fuggers and Antwerp.

An indication that in the mi part of c15th Fustian was still considered a relatively high status cloth (obviously not silk level but still above the norm) was it's inclusion in Edward IV's 1463 Act of Apparrel, this is improtant on 2 counts,

1. it was ommitted in the 1483 Act (possibly as this was a simpler act but also possibly because Fustian had ceased to be seen as a status cloth owing to the increased availability ... an availability which eventually made it a labourers cloth by the c16th!

2. The exclusion from the act for the use of Futian for soldiers ... a clear indication of it's use (documented in the Howard's accounts etc.) for Jacks/doublets of fence etc.

Whilst none of this directly answers the question as to whether the 'cotton' was 'cotton' or 'cotoned' it does suggest an initially unusual cloth and one whose growth does mirror that of the use of 'cotton' in southern Germany and Italy.

This then returns to the question of whether this was cotton ... and in this locale I'd say fairly confidently yes.

So... where does the evidence for 'cotoned wool' come from. This is an intersting point in itself.

The only reference I've seen/can remember which may suggest wool is a petition and subsequent Act during the reign of Henry VIII (1504 ??) which includes Fustian amonst a list of cloths (predominatntly wool) under the regulatory jurisdictoin of Norwich Shearers ... this has been used to suggest that Fustian was woollen (or included it) but I'm not convinced ... it may simply mean that as a raised cloth they, a Shearers ... not weavers, should have control. This necessarily doesn't mean anything beyond that, that the other cloths are wools is no surprise as linen doesn't tend to be raised ... but traditionally Fustian seems to have been.

As to 'cotoned' ... sorry this sounds like re-enactment 2+2=27. I not aware of any English refs to fustian which mention the fabric let alone whether it's coton or not. All the refs I've seen to Fustian just say Fustian ... unlike some export records which mention 'coton kersey' etc.

The association of coton with Fustian seems to me to be an attempt to link the continental refs to cotton to the association with wool cloths in Norwich to 'prove' that the Lombards meant cotoned rather than cotton ... I'd be curious to know if Milanese for the two are even similar??

Sorry for rambling ... I hope it makes sense ... if not feel free to ask for clarification/refs. ... but don't expect them 'til the New Year as I away from the Web 'til then!

Thanks for the informative reply! BTW - where I went to school 2+2 = 22 I had suspected the wool/linen comments I have seen to be off base.

OK - what then should cover a munition grade brigandine? We have on order some hemp with a herringbone pattern. Does this sound plausible? Would it be regular linen or wool even? Going through this ammount of effort, I don't wish to screw up the covering. BTW - what would make the best brigandine "nails"? I think I'll ask this one under the Armour catagory as well.

I agree about cotton being more prevalent in Italy than in the rest of Europe, but I'd like to hear more about the cotton chemise documentation- what's your source? And what's "very early on"?