I know I'm anal, but this question makes me crazy and I need a definitive answer....

Is it kosher to use ringneck pheasant feathers in your hat if you're a 15th C. dude?

I know ostrich is OK, and that bird is not indigenous to Continental Europe or England, but what about these Asian pheasants????

I worry about this so much that I'm losing sleep. Please help.

signed...

Obsessed

I still want to know about those feathers- "without disease" of course.

I think the Ann Landers comment has us thinking this is another "raging sillies" thread.

Any 15th century food recipes in Europe involving pheasant? If so, the bird was obviously around. The feathers are very striking, it might be possible for them to appear on a hat though I can't remember if any of the contemporary paintings from the time show anyone with a pheasant feather in their hat. Most of the ones I see are either white or red, or some other color of ostrich feather. Maybe it would be more class oriented.

I found the following website that talks about the ringneck pheasant and its "travel" history.
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/othrdata/pheasant/past.htm

I know, more questions and less definition. But if the bird were known in Europe, the feathers would make a nice decoration.

"Pheasant "is a European game bird which does appear in recipes of the period, but there are many *species* of pheasants.

That having been stipulated, here's the questions:

*Was the species "Ringneck Pheasant", the common US gamebird, a species that was common in 15th C. Europe or England? (This is the bird almost everyone knows- it has a brilliantly colored head, white band around it's neck and long black/brown mottled tail feathers)

*If not, what is the species of 15th C. game bird?

*What does the tail feather of the 15th C. pheasant look like compared to a Ringneck feather?

The reason for this question is because -as crazy as it sounds- I don't want our guys walking around with historically innaccurate feathers in their hats. Right now I'm allowing black cock feathers, almost any sort of generic chicken feather, crow/raven, hawk, etc. I am NOT allowing ostrich for anyone but Bill and Jeff because I don't think they are appropriate for any but upper class portrayals.

So this is a serious question, sorry if I confused the issue by being silly. I'm often accused of being too serious, so I'm trying to take a hint from Tigger and lighten up a bit. Sorry if I threw anyone a curve.

Gwen

Anyway, thanks for the info! I won't have to rip feathers out of any hats before next week...

BTW- I'd like to see someone fine me for possessing hawk feathers- we have several that consider our property "home" and they drop feathers all the time. It's a crime to pick them up???

Now that one *I'll* have to check out. A man I'm working with on the grasslands stuff is a wildlife biologist specializing in raptors. I'll ask him and see what he says.

quote:

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BTW- I'd like to see someone fine me for possessing hawk feathers- we have several that consider our property "home" and they drop feathers all the time. It's a crime to pick them up???

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Stephen atte Smythe
Edited cuz I keep forgetting that HTML is shut off here...

A Hunting Party with Falcons (detail) Pierre Choisnet. Le Livre des trois ages de l'homme. French, c.1482-83 (Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris.

I didn't want to be greedy, so I'm sharing the info with the list.
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The ring-necked pheasant that we have is the same species (Phasianus colchicus) present in Europe. It is actually native to the Caucasus region between the Caspian and Black seas. According to Greek myth, it was brought to Greece from that region by the legendary
Argonauts and hence spread around Europe, probably with help from the Romans, since the word pheasant comes to English via old French, via Latin. If it wasn't present in England from the Roman period, it probably
came along with the name for it in 1066.

The various species of pheasant are almost entirely native to Asia, and there are only a couple of others that have been introduced to Europe, probably much later, so I think it's safe to say that Phasianus colchicus is your bird. It's medieval appearance is another matter, however.

According to one field guide I have, the native population in the Caucasus lacks the neck ring and has a brownish red rump (Phasianus colchicus colchicus). There are today several subspecies and many hybrids
in England. The one with the white neck ring (P. c. torquatus) arrived from the Caucasus via China. One field guide I have shows examples of both P. c. torquatus and P. c. colchicus, and the tail feathers look the
same (both are today present in England, although torquatus is by far more common). I don't know where you would find an authoritative illustration or description of a 15th-century pheasant. Perhaps you can
find one hiding in a Brueghel or something.

By the way, the ultimite source of the word pheasant, and Phasianus colchicus, comes from the argonaut story. The bird was reputedly picked up in the land of the Golden Fleece, which the Greeks called Colchis, on the banks of the river Phasis.
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I interpret this to mean that even if the *species* isn't the same, the feathers look the same. Also, the tails on the birds in Jenn's picture look close enough to what comes from a modern Ringneck. That's close enough for me!

Thanks for everyone's help!