When in San Diego, last, I saw that Brother Jeffrey had made a really fine pair. I wonder if I could get some instruction in the fine art of turnshoe construction?

Douglas
Aka Buran Khan

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Originally posted by Buran:
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When in San Diego, last, I saw that Brother Jeffrey had made a really fine pair. I wonder if I could get some instruction in the fine art of turnshoe construction?

[/B]

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Tristan is yuor local cordwainer. he made Bro Jeffrey's shoes, as well as the shoes of most of the rest of the red co. I dabble, but am not NEARLY as good as Tristan is. His are the best I've seen.

the basic premise is to make a wooden last, or shoe form. This is NOT the shape of your foot, but the shape of the shoe.

Sew your upper and wet it. Cut your sole leather and place it on the bottom of the last. Stretch the upper over the last (inside out) and let it dry. Attatch the sole to the upper, adding a rand if you wish. Remove the shoe from the last and turn it rightside out (this is why its called a turnshoe). The leather will have taken the form of the last as it dried. Attatch your tongue, any re-inforcing cords, your latchets or buckles, heel stiffeners, etc as desired.

ta daa! you have just made turnshoes! I find the hardest part is the making of your lasts. I'm still not happy with mine...

Jsmart sez:
as far as lasts goes,
how about taking an old trainer/sneaker, filling it full of plaster of paris, cutting the trainer off when it dries- semi lasting lasts![/QUOTE]

alas, this does not give you a medieval turnshoe. This gives you a plaster lump the vague shape of the inside of a pair of tennish shoes....

your foot is not shoe shaped, and shoes are not foot shaped. the two work together. Your last needs to be the shape of the shoe you want to produce. Actually, it isnt even the sahpe of the shoe you want...its the shape of the FORM for the shoe you want. This is why its such a pain in the patoot to make lasts!

Your old tennie runners are not even close to the shape of the turnshoe you want. Plus, all those modern materials provide support and shaping in places that a simple leather turnshoe would not. In short, you'll get an object that is vaguely shoe shaped, but it will be too loose in the ankle, too loose across the arch, wrong in the toe, very difficult to turn, etc.

Plus, using plaster wont work. remember you need to get your leather wet to last it up. This disintigrates the last. You wont be able to yank on it like you need to to make the leather taut enough to take the shape you want. You wont be able to wack on it with your hammer to make the toe and heel smooth. You wont be able to tack on the sole or uppers. etc etc etc.

Some folks have experimented with funky foam plastics with some succeess, and I know of one gal who made an early period shoe (ie not much shaping to it) using an old pair of keds that she stuffed and used THEM as the last like objects. The shoes were ok, but mostly becuase she did about three mockups.

again, you can try the plaster method (or the duct tape method, or the stuffed Keds sneakers method) and it might work OK for you. Its better than the black kung fu shoes! but its not a medieval turnshoe when you're done....

--AM
ps...if anyone can show me wrong, I'd love to hear about it....making lasts SUCKS!

Yestereve, I was making a waster (wooden practice sword). The usual high-tech short-cuts weren't there (either didn't have the expensive equipment or it would be a pain to set up). I clamped the blank in the modern equivalent of a shaving horse and went at it with a spokeshave (contractor grade, whatever that means) and a good old-fashioned chisel and mallet. My back aches, the waster's half-finished, and I understand the value of taking my time and working quietly and slowly with traditional methods.

Lasts were doubtless made in a similar manner. It is a sculpture of a foot, more or less. It might be done authentically with a mallet and chisel, or quickly with a pneumatically powered drum rasp.

Question: One last for both the right and left, is that correct?

I'm learning a lot from this site, now that I'm actually reading it: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOEHOME.HTM

Anybody have some cool pictures?

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Medieval Finds from Excavations in London-2 Shoes and Pattens

Francis Grew and Margrethe de Neergaard

ISBN 0 11 290443 2
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This will give you all the info you need on the actual artifacts you are reconstructing, techniques, lasts, materials, patterns, etc.

Marc Carlson generally has good info on his site, though I have not gone over it with a fine tooth comb.

Avoid any of those weird techniques involving duct tape and plaster that the SCA is so fond of. They're not in the least correct and they produce an inferior shoe with much more effort.

It is important to remember what AM says- the last should be a sculpture of a shoe that just happens to fit around your foot, NOT a sculpture of your foot which a shoe will fit around. It is a vital difference. Heel/ankle area is very narrow which provides support to the foot after shoes are broken in.

A last for each foot, right and left. Unifoot shoes are a later thing, probably 17th century at the earliest. If you must make lasts without power tools, use an adze. It's a little like a chisel set at right angles to the handle and swung like a hatchet.

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Originally posted by Buran:
In Shadrake's Barbarian Warriors, there is a picture of the Coppergate shoe from Anglo-Saxon York, together with a wooden last with which it was presumably made. The last is very vaguely shaped; it could possibly be a left and/or right shoe. Ideas?

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what's your question? is it "did they ahve left and right shoes?" I would say an emphatic yes. At least for the medieval period! its very clear from contemporary illos of cordwainers (shoemakers) that the lasts in the rack on the wall are in pairs. Also, if you look at all the extant shoes in the Museum of London Shoes and Pattens book,. there is obviously a left and a right. Its not just that they got worn and stretched out that way...if you look at the sole, there's NO WAY for them to be anything else but a right and a left.

as I understand it, the lack of left and right was a civil war/19th century thing. When they started manufacturing shoes, it was easier to make them unifooted (is that a word? I dont think so...but you know what I mean) . no actual documentation on that so you can take it for what its worth (ie not much ).

Medieval shoes as far as my research shoes DEFINATELY had a left and a right, and were built that way.

Yes, the Coppergate last in Shadrake is ALL chewed up. And I can imagine if they had two lasts, they would only show one.

Carlson's site doesn't offer a lot of detail about turnshoes, though he does discuss the Coppergate shoes at length. Let me get this straight: You build a turnshoe on a last, stretching it and tacking it down etc., then you turn it inside out. This puts the seam on the inside. So it should fit better inside out than it does rightside out? Am I missing something here? Maybe I'd better just go make a couple shoes...

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"Barbarism is the natural state of mankind. Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always ultimately triumph."

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Originally posted by Buran:
Thanks for your input.
[snip]
Carlson's site doesn't offer a lot of detail about turnshoes, though he does discuss the Coppergate shoes at length. Let me get this straight: You build a turnshoe on a last, stretching it and tacking it down etc., then you turn it inside out. This puts the seam on the inside. So it should fit better inside out than it does rightside out? Am I missing something here? Maybe I'd better just go make a couple shoes...

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making the shoes is indeed the best way I've found to figure out. I'm a VERY visual person and I can read all I want but seeing it is the way to go .

yes, you sew the upper together inside out. Last it up inside out. Stretch and form. Sew the sole to the upper. THEN take it off the last and turn it. It will fit better becuase, remember...the last is NOT THE SHAPE OF YOUR FOOT!!!!! this is a prime reason teh duct tape/foam mold/fill in the wonky method of your choice method does not make good shoes.

A well made last (as opposed to mine....) is flatter than a happy foot. the top of the "arch" will angle down in a strange way. The ankle isnt anythning like a human ankle. The sole is narrower than the bottom of a human foot. Etc etc etc.

you have the basic idea, though. Make it inside out, and turn it to wear it. Hence the term "turnshoe" and all !

there's a reason that making lasts is done today by a totally different group of people than who make the shoes and boots, and a custom last is about $200 a pop.

Thanks much for the info. I have some posts I am going to put up about various topics post Pennsic, as a majority of the participants of this board are there. Don't want them to miss out.