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Author Topic: Found a source for excellent 15th c. handgonnes
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
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posted 05-06-2000 05:34 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi All,

I came across this manufacturers website the other day - Albion Arms. These are the best looking Medieval handgonnes I have seen yet, and to date, they are the only handgonnes in production that I would consider suitable for Wolfe Argent (until you get one in production Jeff).

Check it out - http://www.albion-small-arms.freeserve.co.uk/

This should prove a good source for 15th c. handgonners.

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Bob R.


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hauptmann
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posted 05-07-2000 07:20 PM     Profile for hauptmann     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
B-

I have a 15thC matchlock on it's way from Slovakia right now. I'll post pics (I have them already) next week. It'll make you drool.

The price will be a bit steep, but worth it. It'll be a real gun, not a cheater, like Sykes used to carry.

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Cheers,

Jeffrey


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armourer
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posted 05-12-2000 05:33 PM     Profile for armourer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
We at Albion Small Arms would like to thank you very much for taking the time to come and have a look around our site. We would be even more pleased if you tell all your friends and colleagues about us and get them to come and visit our site. We make a variety of 14th and 15th century styles of gun and would be happy to make to custom designs. All weapons are proofed to UK gun law standards for shot and ball and so are safe. Best regards to all, Glenn curley for Albion Small Arms. www.albion-small-arms.freeserve.co.uk
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Jonathan
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posted 05-13-2000 08:54 AM     Profile for Jonathan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Nice looking stuff, that. Thanks for the heads up Bob!
Question for you though: As the chef de chamber of Wolf Argent, would you (well actually Etienne I suppose) have some sort of training with a handgonne? I'm curious as to how prevalent the knowledge of firearms was within the companies. Obviously the handgonners knew how to use thier own weapons, but what about the rest of the company? Would the "captain" or his second ever actually pick up a gonne and use it?


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How much? Ok, I'll take two.

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited 05-13-2000).]


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chef de chambre
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posted 05-13-2000 10:30 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Jonathan,

That is an interesting question. The reason handgonnes developed into battle winning weapons over the span of 250 years is of course their potential for devestating effect, and the ease of training anybody in their use (unlike self bows, you could become completely competant in their use with a few days training), ease of maintenence (there goes the crossbow), and as time wore on and black powder production brought down price of powder, the overall cheapness in comparison to other projectile weapons.

They recieved the first huge surge in use in the Empire from the last decades of the 14th c. onward in the cities of the Empire. Their virtues made them ideal for town defence from the town ramparts, and they wre a weapon that could be easily mastered with minimal investment in time. Their vices were negated by use from town walls.

If you read Malcom Vales "War and Chivalry" (supposed to be reprinted shortly), Dr. Vale points out the high interest many of the Anglo/Flemish/Franco nobility in the new technology and it's applied use - in contrast to current popular opinion on the subject in armchair historical circles (most of these people painting 15th c. nobility with a very broad brush, cheap paint and ussing a small mindedness that they attribute to anybody born 50 yrs prior to themselves and back to do the painting!) Antoinne the Grand Bastard of Burgundy/Marshal of Burgundy did not scorn to use a bombard and mantlet as the badge for his households livery.

That said, I doubt that many people with any pretentions to the gentry would actually be personally familiar with how to load and fire one of these gonnes at this juncture in history - although they would be keen to employ the practitioners of the art, and most who studied the military arts would be aware of their potential (and at this point frustrated in getting the most out of it). By the early 16th c., the novelty of the gonne had worn off a bit, and from that point onward the nobility and gentry enthusiastically employed elaborate examples of the gunmsmiths art in the hunt (not personally using them in military applications that I am aware until the widespread introduction of the saddle pistol in the mid 16th c.).

So, in short, I doubt Etienne would personaly know how to load and fire a handgonne. I also suspect as an officer keen on preforming his duties competantly he would spend some time trying to figure out how to deploy the six under his command effectively (I'd have them skirmish ahead with the crossbows, falling back on the chambre as they run into resistance - I don't know if this is appropriate, or my projecting 19th c. uses back onto the 15th c.)

In reality, I have had 14 years of experience with black powder hand weapons and 8 years of experience with full scale black powder artillery - both in live fire competitions and re-enactment use, so I am the "training officer" for Wolfe Argent.

Glenn C. - If you don't mind, would you allow us to put up a link to your site when we create a suppliers list? I especially like the options you have for your barrels, offering octagon to round, and the bell ends to the gonnes - not to mention your locks, and options on stocks.

Jeff H. - Hurrah ! I can't wait to see a picture!

Needless to say, as a company we will be doing business with both Glenn and Jeff in the future.

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Bob R.


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armourer
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posted 05-18-2000 02:41 AM     Profile for armourer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bob R.

Thanks for the reply... I would like a link very much when you can organise it please.

I have just uploaded a link on our links page.

Glenn C.


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jsmart
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posted 06-07-2000 07:16 PM     Profile for jsmart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hey jeff,
show us the handgonne pictures!!!!!!!
jsmart

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hauptmann
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posted 06-08-2000 06:14 PM     Profile for hauptmann     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ok, Ok.

These aren't the best pics, they were supplied by the maker and he's a gunsmith, not a photographer.

I have the gun now and it really is very nice. I plan to take some better pics of me shooting it while in my kit.

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Cheers,

Jeffrey


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jsmart
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posted 06-08-2000 07:15 PM     Profile for jsmart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
ahhh....oooooh.....geeee...
alright, how much!?!
what caliber?
will you take a child in exchange?
just kidding,,,,,
really...
jsmrt

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hauptfrau
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posted 06-08-2000 08:48 PM     Profile for hauptfrau     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
NO, WE DO NOT TAKE CHILDREN!!!!

Just want to be clear on that one... (she says, sweating...)

Gwen


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 06-09-2000 08:22 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That is so nice!

Interesting detail on the muzzle - the front sight. Is there a rear sight?

Ditto on jsmart's comments, except for the child part. How about a parrot & two dogs?


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jsmart
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posted 06-09-2000 11:53 AM     Profile for jsmart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i see his " parrot & two dogs" and raise you three cats, a moth, and one *praying mantis eggsack.
jsmart
*is that a new world insect? if so sorry,

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Seigneur de Leon
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posted 11-28-2000 01:08 AM     Profile for Seigneur de Leon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Has anyone seen this site, or checked out their stuff?

http://www.handgonnes.com/


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 11-28-2000 12:01 PM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Looks Like Irish Lock Musket Co. products. Their URL:
http://www.net-works.net/irish/irishome.htm

Since we're in URL posting mode, here's a very nice Aussie site with lots of info & links:
http://www.members.sia.net.au/dispater/handgonnes.htm

BTW, I sent an E-mail to the Albion folk several months ago. No response.


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