(from pages 128-9)

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For the Swiss to take the field, it was necessary that the physical needs of the men be met. Frequently, the troops were ordered to provide their own sustenance. On the eve of active campaigning in the Swabian War, the city council of Solothurn directed, on 29 January 1499, that all well-armed men should provide themselves with armor, clothing, shoes, and a good weapon as well as meat, oatmeal, cheese, and butter. Anyone showing up for service without the necessary equipment would be punished and sent home ... When provisions brought with the men, usually in their packs and haversacks, were consumed, the troups were often unable to find enough to eat.

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The first part I have quoted was supported by a cite, the part after the ellipses was not directly footnoted; I'll be watching for his support for that part as I read further.

I'd like a copy as well.

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I've found three interesting period illustrations that may help to bolster the hypothesis that foot soldiers often carried some basic items, food, and liquid on their person rather than in a wagon or cart. As soon as I get them scanned in, will post. Stay tuned!

Conjecture: were they traveling through places where it was prohibitive to bring wagons? Had they no access to pack-animals?

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1) In many clashes the terrain was rugged (e.g., the Swiss approach via the Gotthard to Bellinzona), and these geographic features were exploited by the Swiss to disadvantage a mounted or heavily laden enemy (Morgarten).

2)Even though Swiss tactics were aggressive, many of their campaigns were defensive - they weren't far from the Confederation's borders, and they had no intention of taking the war "on the road". Billeting troops in border settlements near anticipated clashes seems to be more common than establishing large campaign encampments. The confederation system allowed the army to rely on local sources of provisions.

3) They also fought for material gain of portable goods, moreso than for territory, and there's not much point in bringing a laden baggage train if a prime motive is to carry back as much loot as possible.

I don't think these ideas supporting soldiers carrying their own provisions would apply as generally to other armies of the era.

1) http://www.mediumaevum.com/image/canteen.jpg

This is a somewhat large picture; if you have a copy of Osprey's "Armies of Medieval Burgundy" you can save yourself the trouble of downloading it and look at the bottom of page 37. In the bottom left hand corner of the picture you will see two Burgundian soldiers at a water pump and trough: one is drinking from a (freshly filled?) canteen, the other is gesturing as if he wants it. The illustration certainly looks to me like an army on the march.

2) http://home.armourarchive.org/members/gaston/15thC/canteen_glen_MVC-541F.JPG

I apologize for the sideways picture. This is a detail from the Medieval House Book, may also been seen in "Venus and Mars: The world of the medieval housebook". Illustrations are very often seen from this work. However, you will note the man turning up what appears to be a metal canteen, with someone else (this time a woman) gesturing for it. Possibly another canteen is laying on top of the wagon directly below the two. I say it is metal because it is colored the exact same as other metal items in the same illustration, namely arms and armour. This is again an army on the march.

(side note: if you don't already have the "Venus and Mars" book, I highly recommend you getting a copy. It's great)

3) http://www.mediumaevum.com/image/haver.jpg

A detail from the same image of a marching army. Although it is hard to make out, at least one of the soldiers has a haversack-looking item slung on his left side. However, it looks like many of these fellows are gunners, so that bag could just as possibly be used to carry ammunition for his gun as to carry food and personal items.

4) http://home.armourarchive.org/members/gaston/15thC/haversack_glen_MVC-535F.JPG

This is a detail from a 15th century illustration from teh "Expanding Horizons" volume of the Milestones of history series. Unfortunately, the credits only list the work as being "In the British Museum". Real specific. Anyway, note the black bag at the feet of the two soldiers. Suspiciously, it looks like a black leather haversack or, to borrow an 18th century term, "Possibles bag". The rest of the picture shows the aftermath of a battle, with stuff strewn all over the battlefield, killing of prisoners, stripping of the dead, etc. It looks like the two soldiers are comparing coins, possibly part of their loot. Of course, we have no idea what that bag was actually used for, but it sure looks like a bag with a shoulder strap, shown as something left on a battlefield.

So far, that's what I've been able to come up with. Please note that when I say "canteen" I mean a metal, leather, or wooden container with a strap meant to carry liquid on one's person, and when I say "haversack" I mean a strapped leather or cloth bag which is meant to be carried on the person and contain rations and/or personal items.

I would welcome anyone's comments on this issue, but I would be more appreciative of more sources to prove that soldiers carried this stuff.

Having seen the 'haversacks', and looking at the context in the pictures, I think the fellow with the gun has an accessories bag, and not a haversack - he is the only gunner you can see clearly in the group, and coincidentaly the only fellow with a bag.

The other pictures I have seen are rather elaborate for haversacks, and seem to be stiffened - I think these are documents bags such as carried by couriers. I think it largely depends on the army and how it was organized - we know for a fact that Swiss soldiers were expected to muster with several days individual rations - it stands to reason they likely had individual means of transporting thier rations. The Burgundian army on the other hando have relyewd on a system of foraging by harbingers, bringing food and fodder to a centeral location to be distributed, and driving cattle on the hoof, and bringing cartloads of grain - heavy reliance is placed on the inevitable train of merchants following along, and local supplies being sold to the army encamped.

This would stand scrutiny seeing we know the Swiss army generaly could be faster on the march. That the Hausbuch illustrations seem to show the occasional costrel, but dubious haversacks is not a discrepancy, as it shows the Imperial army, and most Late Medieval armys from the evidence I have seen seem to have followed more along the lines of the Burgundian model than the Swiss in this regard.

The costrels are indisputable, excepting we don't know if every soldier had one (they certainly weren't issued), and given that every scene showing them includes someone begging for a drink, I think illustrates the 'ant' personalities tended to have then, while the 'grasshoppers' counted on the comparitive short marches, and taverns and the like dispensing liquids holding them over - when that didn't pan out, they would likely beg an 'ant' for a swig. It is possibly a themed visual joke by the artists.

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Originally posted by Glen K:

3) http://www.mediumaevum.com/image/haver.jpg

A detail from the same image of a marching army. Although it is hard to make out, at least one of the soldiers has a haversack-looking item slung on his left side.

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You're talking about the gunner with no helmet? He's the only one I can see with anything slung... and it looks to me like his helmet, not a haversack. Maybe it's the way my monitor displays it.

At the battle of Nancy, a foraging column of Zurichers and Fribourgians(?) was noted.

And yes, according to the Mannschaftrodel every man was to provide several days provision, and I read somewhere (the source excapes me) if they didn't come to the Mannschaftrodel with the nescessities, they were punished.

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Yes, I think a portion of troops - especially those feudal ones ordered to muster with individual rations, would have to have some means of carying them. The only illustrations. We know there were 'scripts', for pilgrims, and presumably the soldiers carrying rations would have similar.

The only illustrations I recall showing bags being carried have them in the form of the 16th & 17th century 'snapsack', familiar to ECW reenactors, but these are almost invariably worn by peasants tilling fields, or by shepards.

The imperial handgunner I think definitley has a bag at his waist, but the problem stands, is it a bag for his gun accessories (which we also find described), or is it some sort of ration bag? None of the other men marching in that clump have one, although they might have them slung over the other shoulder, or maybe they tie to a belt. Butr this is in the realm of speculation.

I think we need to see Swiis illustratiuons of Swiss soldiers on the march. I recall one soldier in Louis de Bruges Froissart that has a small kettle carried on his glaive which is sloped over his shoulder. As the illustration is of thwe sack of a town however, it is more likely loot from the town rather than anything else.

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Seems reasonable means of carrying variable amount of gear, whilst the box would give more protection (obviously ).

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Didn't say it would necessarilly be a cloak, any peice of material used for a bivoac at night could be used to wrap goods in whist moving ....

Not really possible to establish whether this was common or not, so I won't attempt to , just wanted to put it forward as a >possible< way of carrying your food and other light gear on the march (which has the benefit of providing material for a bivoac when not marching - as a bag/box doesn't).

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Looks like a bag on the floor, one that I thought was a bag is a hat, an ammo pouch convieniently close to the gonnes on the wall. What's that D-shaped object on the floor in the lower right? Another ammo pouch? It's about the right shape...

Is that a staff-sling above the gonnes?

Those are obviously female warriors at the table.

[ 09-04-2003: Message edited by: Jeff Johnson ]

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From what I am seeing of the evidence, it would seem to support my original supposition. Looking at the majority of pictures, we see food being in large part provided in bulk, either on the hoof, or in sacks or large wicker baskets. Individuals carying sacks are a rarity - in each case you see a "haversack", it is associated with an arquebuser, and so as likely holds supplies for that as for food. Canteens/costrels appear far more often, but are not universally carried.

Looking through a loaned book on Great altarpieces, and art reproduced in the new Spufford book, I came across several things - clear evidence for the occasional costrel amongst travelers, and an idea of what pilgrims scripts looked like - in the Spufford book is a picture of the exterior and cutaway interior of an inn - in a room full of beds, on the table in front are three objects that appear to be haversacks (of a dark cloth or leather, non-rigid). In the altarpiece book, one dealing with the life of a Saint shows a crowd of pilgrims - one in the foreground carrying what looks like a typical haversack, save it seems to be made of very coarse material - almost rope, and it has no closure flap, but is an open pocket.

As to the haverboxes - I beleive these are for transporting books or documents, and are rigid. In the section showing St. Jerome in his study, one of these can clearly be seen amidst a pile of books, with all the same appearance, save for seeming a little deeper than the illuminated miniatures. One can believe Alexanders army burning chests, books, and papers - I have more trouble believing the artist was depicting people burning their food bags.

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Hanging items (L to R):

Looks like a sling with a very large rock.

Seems to be a "cartridge pouch".

On the Floor (L to R):

Dog cleaning itself.

Hat with feather belongs to the guy getting his hair pulled.

Lower right looks like another hat from the guy with the dagger.

Games: Backgammon, nine man's morris. Looks to be two boards for that or maybe the middle folks are about to play cards.

Jenn

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[ 09-04-2003: Message edited by: Jeff Johnson ]

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