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Author Topic: English free company.
K Grayson
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Member # 284

posted 03-30-2003 04:15 AM     Profile for K Grayson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'd appreciate any help anyone could give me for this. My group is a small (between 5-10 regulars) HYW group. Our current discussion is about heading towards a more accurate setting. We want to move away from our generic HYW era, towards a specific time. We are considering becoming an English free company, loyal to Richard II, who have become brigand (perhaps travelling in France?) after Richard's disposition in 1399. The year would be 1399 or 1400.
Questions:
Is this ok? I'm hoping it doesnt sound completely rediculous, and that my history is correct.
What kind of livery would we wear? The colours of our Company commander and the badge of Richard?
What kinds of people would be part of such a company? and followers?

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Kelt.


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NEIL G
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Member # 187

posted 03-31-2003 06:05 AM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi

Where are you planning to be based? If you are in England or France, you're definitely going to be brigands - you'll be traitors in the english areas, and enemies in the French.

You could move to italy, where you could take service as mercenaries without anybody caring that much about who you want on the throne of england.

From a purely practical viewpoint, brigands doesn't sound that good an idea. A group the size of yours is going to get hunted down and killed without too much trouble at that time - you're well past the days of the big bands or marauding routiers that infested france after the peace.

Why is your group still loyal to Richard? Are you former retained men of his? If so, that gives you a lot of the setup information about your characters, as you'll then know what they were doing pre-1399.

If you weren't his retained men, but sympathise with him, I don't think you'd be wearing his badge - it's more like unit flash on a modern uniform than a general sign of support for his policies.

Regarding liveries....well, if you're brigands, you can wear what hell you like or can steal!

If you were retained men of Richard, you might well still be wearing clothing issued to you while you were in his service. However, this need not be uniform - "livery" means that it is issued to you as part of your pay, not that it is in particular colours.

The same goes for any other commander - retained men were normally issued clothes (or a quantity of cloth to be made into clothes) as part of their annual salary, usually twice a year. This might be any colour the commander choses, and may simply be whatever's available at the time, and/or different for different individuals.

However, there are also accounts of lords dressing their entire followings alike, when they wanted to put on a good show.

As to what sort of individuals would be in such a unit....well, again, if you're brigands, anything goes! You have accounts of brigand bands being led by knights, rogue priests, all sorts - this is actually why Mallory is in the tower when he writes le morte d'arthur, for carrying on like a medieval Jesse James. Most will probably be archers, though, since that's what most of your troops are likely to be.

If you are still an organised military unit, well, armies at that point are basically being recruited by contract - X agrees to attend a certain lord for a campaign with so many mounted men at arms and so many archers, in return or a certain sum - and I'd use that as a guideline for what your unit should look like. Usual ratio is about 1 man-at-arms to 2 archers, but can go as low as 1:1 or as high as 1:3.

Men at arms are in full armour and riding "covered" horses, archers in as much armour as they want to wear and can afford - some of the illos from that period show them in damn near full harness.

Followers - well, depends mostly on setting and who you are.

Hope that helps

Neil


Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
K Grayson
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Member # 284

posted 03-31-2003 08:01 AM     Profile for K Grayson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks very much, all good stuff.

quote:
Why is your group still loyal to Richard? Are you former retained men of his?


I thought it might be a good reason why former retained men would turn brigand. Is this true? And how realistic does that sound?

quote:

If so, that gives you a lot of the setup information about your characters, as you'll then know what they were doing pre-1399.

That was partly the reason also.

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Kelt.


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NEIL G
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Member # 187

posted 03-31-2003 11:37 AM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
OK, if you are former retained Richard IIs retained men, then you may well have been outlawed anyway, either by the Lords Appellent before his death, or aftewards, either of which give you good reason to be outside the law.

Equally, you don't HAVE to be brigands - you can equally well seek mercenary service elsewhere, if you'd prefer.

Equally, you could almost certainly make your peace with the new dynasty - you aren't important enough for them to hold a grudge against, and if I'm willing to recruit my armies from the jails, I'm probably willing to rehabilitate some former servants of the deposed king without too many qualms, in return for some garrison service in france, perhaps? There's plenty of evidence for this sort of thing under edward III, certainly - I don't know of evidence for later, but that's probably because there's less research on the composition of amies in a "quiet" period.

I guess it depends on what you want to do.

Regarding badges, you have a number to choose from. The most obvious is the white hart, but he also - like most medieval lords - used a number of badges; the popular conception that each lord had a single, unique badge is a simplification, I'm afraid.

Depending on role, some of you might well be wearing one (or more) of his badges. Don't overdo it, though - as far as I'm aware, the badge most commonly worn on combat gear at that point by anyone not entitled to hearaldry is the simple cross of St George, which any english troops might wear.

Badges of individual nobles seem to be much more commonly used a couple of generations later, in the wars of the roses, when obviously the St George is out, as both sides would be wearing it.

Neil


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Rhys
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posted 03-31-2003 03:14 PM     Profile for Rhys   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There is another possibility.
The uprising of Owen Glendower started as a pro-Richard movement.I know that the French sent a force to Wales during that time, and that France harboured welsh independance leaders.I am not sure if there were coherent Ricardian or Welsh units in France. You might want to look into Glendower and see if that can help you.

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All the best,
Rhys


Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
K Grayson
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Member # 284

posted 04-02-2003 12:05 AM     Profile for K Grayson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks everyone. That gives me some stuff to work with. Nothing has been decided, and we may yet start a new idea from scratch.

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Kelt.


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Alan F
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posted 04-02-2003 10:58 AM     Profile for Alan F   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Uryen, if you've not decided what your group should be, may I suggest trying a Scottish 15th Century group? Plenty of fighting, and much enjoyment to be had! Look at what my group is getting up to web page for more details.
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Adhemar
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Member # 274

posted 04-06-2003 11:29 AM     Profile for Adhemar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If you can shift your focus time period to 1403 there's a series of breaches in the Anglo-French truce about that time. The Duc d'Orleans is leading troops down into Gascony, the Agenais, Saintogne, etc. and even threatens Bordeaux itself briefly in 1407. You could certainly sign on as a contract company with that expidition, as being a Richardian sympathizer would be a good reason... and you can have all *sorts* of fun with the ensuing Burgundian/Argmanac struggels once Jean (sans peur) de Bourgogne assassinates Louis d'Orleans... It could be a fun time to be basically somebody's 'pet' roitiers.

If I may reccomend a site (mine, I say in all humility...), check out http://www.maisonstclaire.org/timeline/timeline.html

--------------------

Ta

Adhemar

Imagination was given to man to
compensate him for what he is not;
a sense of humor to console him
for what he is.


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tim seasholtz
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posted 04-07-2003 05:06 PM     Profile for tim seasholtz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You could always go 15th Century. Greys Company started out as a HYW group.
Anyway - best O' luck to ya!

Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
K Grayson
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Member # 284

posted 04-08-2003 02:06 AM     Profile for K Grayson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tim seasholtz:
You could always go 15th Century.

Strangely enough, WoR was also one of the ideas that came up.

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Kelt.


Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged

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