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Nikki
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Member # 27

posted 08-23-2000 01:42 PM     Profile for Nikki   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I started wondering a while ago just how much math an unschooled person would have used on a daily basis. This was brought on by a comment in the Gies and Gies _A Medieval Family_ introduction (pg 7), which reads "In England another often-used unit (of money) was the mark, which equaled two-thirds of a pound, a relationship confusing to a modern observer but giving no trouble to the Pastons, who switched back and forth between pounds and marks with casual dexterity." As someone who spends at least several hours a day dealing in advanced-calculus-level math, my perspective of what kinds of math are needed to get along on a daily basis are kind of warped .

Has anyone seen any evidence of math being used for daily tasks? Like, aside from calculating monetary amounts, some math is needed for tasks like cooking, farming, etc. Is it acceptable to assume that many people, even those with no formal schooling at all, could count, add, and subtract? What about more advanced methods, like multiplication/division, fractions (needed for the mark-pound conversion), geometry? I've seen some of the evidence to the contrary, like tally sticks and some of those counting-board thingies for measuring out pay, which would seem to be a vote against even simple counting and addition. Is it possible that people managed to get along without being able to count?

-nikki


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
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posted 01-02-2001 07:02 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Nikki,
I can't find anything off hand, but did do some web browsing and found these titles on Stefans's Florilegium. Originally posted in 1997 by Charles Cohen.

Mathematics References:

W. W. Rouse Ball, A Short Account of the History of Mathematics. Dover Publications, Inc. New York, 1960. ISBN 0-486-20630-0. Unaltered reprint of the 1908 edition.
This is one of the best math history books out there, complete with simple examples and good references.

Carl B. Boyer. A History of Mathematics. Second Edition. Revised by Uta C. Merzbach. John Wiley & Songs, New York, 1989. ISBN 0-471-09763-2 (0-471-54397-7 paperback), QA21.B767.
This book may be more complete that Ball's book, but it is also more convoluted and has far fewer examples. Much of Boyer's book is based on Ball's book. I find I refer more to Ball's book than Boyer's.

Lucas N. H. Bunt, Phillip S. Jones and Jack D. Bedient. The Historical Roots of Elementary Mathematics. Dover Publications, Inc., New York, 1988. ISBN 0-586-25563-8, QA21.B95.
A fine book detailing the mathematics of several ancient civilizations, good as a primer.

Eric Temple Bell, Mathematics: Queen & Servant of Science. Tempus Books of Microsoft Press. Redmond, Washington, 1989. ISBN 1-55615-173-X, QA21.B42. Originally published in 1951.
This is an interesting book which tries to take several mathematical subjects and make them interesting. I like the presentation, but it is a bit light on the history.

You might be able to find some of these titles at MIT.


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hauptfrau
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posted 01-02-2001 11:00 AM     Profile for hauptfrau     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If one is to believe what one reads in "The Legend of Good Women", most urban dwellers have what we would consider a basic elementary education. Correspondingly, I think that would include lower mathmatics. Most urban dwellers were involved in commerce of some sort, so money would be changing hands and at least some math would be involved.

One would think that most agricultural workers would need to be able to count and do simple sums if they were involved in selling there goods at market. Even trading, one needs to know how many calves are worth how many pigs or chickens. One needs to be able to tally the tax amount due for the lord (why give him 3 bags of grain if your tax is only 2?), and even a shepherd needs to be able to count his flock to make sure none are lost.

Anyone who has seen a cathedral like Chatres or Notre Dame knows that *some* part of the population was able to do advanced and complex calculations!!!

As for cooking, I can tell you from experience that that may be the place one needs the least amount of math. I rarely measure anything, and mostly figure portions by volume or taste, Period cookery books don't give measurements, only telling the cook to add "enough", or a "goodly portion" or to "spice it well". Time is usually reckoned in prayers - "Seethe it the space of 2 Aves", "Stir it the length of a paternoster", etc.

Gwen


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 01-03-2001 10:50 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's cuz Vikings had 12 toes. Everyone knows that!
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Brenna
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posted 01-04-2001 10:05 AM     Profile for Brenna   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Love that Viking comment. I bet the population of Iona and various other places raided by them would swallow that easily.

Wasn't there an early medieval prayer that contained something along the lines of "God protect us from the fury of the Northmen"?
My mother swears it also contained the phrase "and the things that go bump in the night" but that's probably stretching it. If not, I think it says a lot about the complex relationship between reality, religion and superstition in the Dark Ages and early medieval period.

Brenna


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Alaric
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posted 01-12-2001 07:03 PM     Profile for Alaric   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"From ghoulies and ghosties,
And long-leggity beasties,
and things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord, deliver us."

Forget which author coined that one, but its is much more modern than the things we normally look at.


As for base 12, it is a much simpler numbering system than base 10, maninly because so many more numbers divide evenly into it. (1,2,3,4,6,12 vs. 1,2,5,10) and a system that exploits both 3 and 4 as multiples avoids alot of the headaches base 10 is prone to.

As for mathematical ability, a fair level could be assumed. Counting herds, commerce, judging seeding amounts (Area calcualations) tithing, etc. all revolve around basic mathematical ability. Then, architecture rears it's head. The math in that is just staggering, sometimes.

Alaric



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