While I was responding to a thread on the Arms and Armour section about the relevance of the Medieval fighting masters to reenactment combat, I had a thought I'd like to ask board members:

When you are developing your impression, how important do you feel it is that you have a working knowledge of the skills, arts, crafts your "persona" would? Or is it merely enough to have the kit and be able to explain what the figure you represent would have been like.

Ie: If your impression is an archer, should you be able to shoot, and train at it? If you are a man-at-arms, should you be able to ride (should you own a horse?)? If you are a member of the clergy, should you have a working knowledge of theology and any theological debates of the time and place you portray?

Best,

For my part, I like to be able to "ride the ride". I have tack, a horse, and know how to fight from her back.

I'm still working on the tilting part, as I need to make the proper eqt, so I don't kill myself or rip my arm from its shoulder socket.

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Cheers,

I think this opinion is the reason (well, one of them) that SCA/Adria "knights" are so absurd- they wear big jingly spurs and most of them wouldn't know which end of the horse poops.

For me, it's sort of amusing that Ginevra hates England as her personal nemesis, yet Gwen is quite charmed by all things English. The bias just sort of popped up in thinking about being dragged from our cozy billet in cosmopolitan Bruge and sent off to fight a silly war for those backward English.

Yup, it's hard to do a convincing impression if you don't have your feet firmly in the base.

That's just my opinion, of course.

Gwen

Great commenton SCA knights and horses. Of course, you could make an endless list of things they may or may not know how to do.
;-) But yes, one wonders how you portray a chevalier, without knowing about the said Cheval. Now, I haven't done any fighting from horseback ... yet...because I haven't convinced anyone to let me use their horse to do that. ;-) I do ride, however, and I have ridden in harness, in a period saddle, and I'm working my way up to the quintain...

Well, thanks Glen, but :0 I'm definately NOT a master at arms. Merely a scholar of arms. Jeff's a master armourer, Peter Johnson is a master swordsmith - I have a long way to go before I'll feel my martial skills justify that title. But don't worry, my ego is plenty healthy, I'll let you know when I get there.

Seriously, though, I need to thank Bob for telling me about the board. Exciting stuff.

BTW, if you'd like to tell me more about what you all are working on with the Templar stuff, I'd be very interested, since I do the early 13th century. And while I live quite a ways away, I'm closer than Erik Schmidt (who's at work on my new hauberk now!). Private email is cool by me...

Cheers,

Greg

Welcome to the board Greg ! It is a pleasure having you aboard. I have to agree with the general consensus, unless you bother to learn the skills applicable to the portrayal, then you are doing nothing so much as participating in a costume party.

I come from the point of view of having trained as a historian, and I wish to gain an understanding of things by experiencing them to the best of my ability. It would be little fun for me unless I learned how to fill the role I portray, and hopefully gain insight by doing so.

I think it is also very important to learn about the society that you would belong to, and important "current events". You should strive to gain a working knowledge of what was happening and who was who - at least to the depth of what you would have known had you been present in the role you portray. It is better to know even more, especially if you wish to gain an understanding of the time and place. Without this knowledge, but having some of the skills, this tends to lead to the trap that the SCA weaves for it's members - in the worst case leading to little fictional kingdoms and devolving into the fantasy LARP.

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Bob R.

So, my argument is...if you can't afford a horse, don't adopt a mounted portrayal. Be a footman if you want a military impression; there were plenty through all periods of the middle ages.

I'm so sick of "knights" who can't ride, and/or don't have a horse.

Boy, I'm in grumpy mood. I tried calling the Westside Fencing center in LA today (to investigate space availability for Keith Ducklin's seminar here in October), and the general manager was a real piece of horse feces. Are all fencing types snots, or what? Sheesh.

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Cheers,

Der Hauptmann sez:

"So, my argument is...if you can't afford a horse, don't adopt a mounted portrayal. Be a footman if you want a military impression; there were plenty through all periods of the middle ages."

the same can be applied to other types of portrayals. It amazes me no end the people who winge about how much this hobby costs, but go about insisting on dressing like high nobles.

I am a middle class person in real life. I portray a medieval middle class person. Perfect fit! Simple, well made clothing of appropriate fibers isnt out of line price wise if you dont insist on a new outfit for every event.

ahhh....but everyone wants to be a fairy princess, right? (or prince ) *sigh*....

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg Mele:

When you are developing your impression, how important do you feel it is that you have a working knowledge of the skills, arts, crafts your "persona" would? Or is it merely enough to have the kit and be able to explain what the figure you represent would have been like.

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sheesh boys! It isnt all about horsies!

much depends on where and when you are, but your basic medieval woman would have known:
1. the liturgical calendar and how a latin mass goes (having heard it a jillion times)
2. how to spin, at least a little
3. that you need to soak a bucket or keep it wet for it to hold water
4. who their local saints were
5. what verjuice tasted like
6. where babies come from
7. where their food comes from (this is a biggie...how many of you know the process of making a live pig into edible safe sausages? for converting wheat in the field into bread? etc)

just a smattering...

I find that a good background knowledge in medieval everyday life makes a much more complete picture. We can attempt to recreate the middle ages by reproducing what we see in pictures, but there are places (like womens underwear) that there are huge holes in the pictorial evidence. Having a clue about the medieval mindset allows us to make a more educated guess about filling in the holes.

More must-know-how-to-do-items for everyone, not just women:

Make a fire without matches
Cook over a fire
Cook without a recipe
Hand sewing
Braiding
HOW TO SAY BASIC PRAYERS IN LATIN !!!!!!!

And the list goes on....

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion, and I think the key phrase here is Living History. The SCA, bless their hearts, don't really do Living History as such, unless an individual cares to do so.

The guild approach seems useful. You can have a focus for your skills training, and when presenting to the public, everyone can put in something different...

In our hectic, plastic, electronic lives, I believe that such a pursuit can save souls...

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Originally posted by Mike T:
I still think Jeff and Bob's Chaucerian handbook had a great deal going for it. I wish they would republish it. We might also consider how best to showcase this sort of knowledge during public demonstrations. Any ideas, experiences? Mike T.

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The Chaucerian handbook has been re-printed under the title "Daily Life in Chaucer's England". I believe it's avaliable through Greenwood publishing.
It's not just a re-print but a new edition. Lots of new info but they cut some of the old stuff as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- it's easy to do a bangup impression if you stick close to the social class you are in real life. THE MIDDLE CLASS RULES!!!!! Let's hear it for the bourgeois!!!!

Of course, that's just my opinion...

Gwen

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Originally posted by hauptfrau:
jsmart was just telling me yesterday that at the last event he went to, people told him that he looked like he just walked out of the Medieval Soldier book in his kit, but wanted to know why he wanted to look like a "scummy person" (meaning average, middle class, not noble) instead of a nobleman (with fancy, trim encrusted clothing). He observed "and this from people in modern fabrics and nylon sandals..."

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quote:

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I've said it before and I'll say it again- it's easy to do a bangup impression if you stick close to the social class you are in real life. THE MIDDLE CLASS RULES!!!!! Let's hear it for the bourgeois!!!!

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