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Author Topic: BAM! Emeril cooks Medieval
Jeff Johnson
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posted 08-29-2001 06:58 PM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
On the Food Network's Emeril Live, Emeril Lagasse cooked some medieval recipes: http://www.foodtv.com/tvshows/tv-c3/0,4531,4191,00.html

BAM!

(Copied from our pal, Buran's post on AA)

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Geoffrey Bourrette
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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-29-2001 08:55 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Jeff, though I am not a food expert, I did go and look at the link. While is sounds good, once you start digging and looking at the recipe titles and the sources from whence they came, the recipes are relatively "modern" by our standards.

Perhaps the white bread (recipe from Maggie Black's "Medieval Cookbook")is closest to actual, but the Potato and Wild Mushroom Napoleons (the cooks own recipe)? Somehow I don't think that quite works as potatoes are the problem with this recipe.

Maid of Honour Cakes Recipe adapted from "The Good Fare and Cheer of Old England", by Joan Parry Dutton, published by Reynal. This book was published in 1960. This is an excerpt I found about it in a book search engine.

quote:
Containing all manner of British home cooking and drink. Chapters include : The British Breakfast; Time for Tea; Old-time Buns and Cakes; and ever so much more. A delight to read as well as to cook from.

Nothing medieval is mentioned, doesn't mean that they don't have anything, but as Bob says sometimes it is thought that Old England is Medieval when they actually mean the 17th-18th c.

Cheers

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 08-29-2001 10:40 PM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Know diddly about period cookery meself. Figured it'd elicit a few comments of one sort of another.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
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Brenna
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posted 08-30-2001 09:13 AM     Profile for Brenna   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, you could actually support the Potato dish back to the 16th century. The Spanish did bring the potato back from the New World then, but even by Elizabeth I's time, they were almost unknown anywhere else in Europe.

I'm still trying to figure out how they became the staple of the Irish diet in less than 300 years...

Brenna

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Where in this world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, beauty without vanity? Here, where grace is laced with muscle, and strength by gentleness confined. He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity. There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent; there is nothing so quick, nothing so patient. England's past has been borne on his back. All our history is his industry: we are his heirs, he is our inheritance. Ladies and gentlemen: The Horse! - Robert Duncan's "Tribute to the Horse"


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Reinhard von Lowenhaupt
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posted 08-30-2001 09:46 AM     Profile for Reinhard von Lowenhaupt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Potatoes grow quite well in the British Isles due to climate, esp. with the rich soil of Ireland. They grew equally as well in Scotland, even with the shallow soil of the highlands. The English cursed the potato, and said it caused the Irish and Scots to become even more lazy because of the ease and speed of growth. (there are several references to this in letters written during the Highland clearances). I can try to look for references if anyone likes.

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Per Mortem Vinco


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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-30-2001 11:57 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I believe it was the Famine in Ireland that made them the "staple".

As I am unware of the potatoes presence in Europe, and Spain in particular, can you please provide the documentation that offers this information? More specifically which explorer brought them back?

Curiosity...

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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Brenna
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posted 08-30-2001 01:17 PM     Profile for Brenna   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No, it was a potato fungus causing the potatoes to rot in the ground that caused the famine of the 1840's. Most of the Irish tenant farmers had to survive on a planted square meter of potatoes while they sold the rest of their produce to pay the rent on their crofts.

For some good links on potato go to http://www.sunspiced.com/phistory.html http://www.indepthinfo.com/potato/history.shtml

Some notes from the site:

quote:
No one knows exactly when potatoes were first planted in European soil but, in 1573, records of a Spanish hospital in Seville show that sacks of potatoes were ordered for provisions.

quote:
At about the same time, some historians have written that Sir Francis Drake brought back some potatoes from a trip to the West Indies. If so, these were probably part of the stores of a Spanish ship he had fought with. The potatoes were given to Sir Walter Raleigh, and were cultivated at both his estates in Ireland and, later on, Virginia.

Hope that helps.
Brenna

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Where in this world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, beauty without vanity? Here, where grace is laced with muscle, and strength by gentleness confined. He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity. There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent; there is nothing so quick, nothing so patient. England's past has been borne on his back. All our history is his industry: we are his heirs, he is our inheritance. Ladies and gentlemen: The Horse! - Robert Duncan's "Tribute to the Horse"


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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-30-2001 01:29 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for clarifying that for me.

I found this link regarding potatos, though as Brenna mentioned above, no exact date for their arrival in the old world is given. Simply that they arrived with the Conquistadors. There was no mention that the Spanish actually "ate" them. Just an early mention as some kind of truffle and that they were brought back.

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/potato/history/migration.asp

Despite the fact that they are mentioned relatively early in the 16th c. They are not considered a medieval food which was my point to begin with.

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Buran
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posted 08-30-2001 01:48 PM     Profile for Buran   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi, thanks for sharing this link, it's been a while since I've seen a discussion on Medieval food.

You should have seen the costume he was wearing, very silly.

Anyone have good cookbooks recipes?

Say, watermelons aren't period, are they?

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Viking_Age


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Brenna
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posted 08-30-2001 02:18 PM     Profile for Brenna   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Probably not for Europeans, but I believe they came from the Middle East orginally. Actually I believe a lot of melons did. No time for research thought right now, I have to work, sigh.

Brenna

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Where in this world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, beauty without vanity? Here, where grace is laced with muscle, and strength by gentleness confined. He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity. There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent; there is nothing so quick, nothing so patient. England's past has been borne on his back. All our history is his industry: we are his heirs, he is our inheritance. Ladies and gentlemen: The Horse! - Robert Duncan's "Tribute to the Horse"


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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-30-2001 02:33 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Here ya go Buran. Watermelons just for you.

http://www.chennaionline.com/specials/summer/features/articles/history.asp

I must put a cautionary note on this, no one seems to document their resources on any of these web sites, it is believed that water melons originated in Africa. Supposedly, they spread to China by the 10th/11th c. A.D.

With the coming of the Moors to Europe, so too came the "melon".

Apparently it wasn't mentioned in Britain until the 17th c and then it finally made its way to the US.

But like I said, the websites I was looking at, none of them offered real documentation and constantly parroted each other by saying that it "appeared in Egyptian hieroglyphs as far back as 5000 B.C."

I couldn't check with "watermelon.org" their site doesn't seem to be working.

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-30-2001 02:38 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
BTW- this is the best one I have seen so far. Notation from a research paper translated from China.

http://www.carleton.ca/~bgordon/Rice/papers/gu97.htm

Now that we have gotten off topic, I would put forward that if this discussion continues: Watermelons or Potatos, please take it to the Miscellaneous/Off Topic Forum.

Thanks

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