Db

--------------------

Db

long time... actually the cute girl is sitting next to me and was only involed in taking pictures of our site for the website.

here's the story. my group got invited to attend FLARF, set up camp and do demos, etc. cool. ren faires are farby but gives an opperrtunity for new members not completely kitted out to partiicipate at an event. from day one we've been hasled by security and other event organizers. stupid stuff that we had not only cleared with the higher ups but were the reasons whhy thhey wanted us there. so every weekend we've had to dismantle an additional part of our encampment because they've come over and told us to. i couldn't particiipate because i was wearinng split hose whic i have worn at other events. but no, i'm obscene and the "scottsmen" running around sans underware isn't. no worries. but then the next week we couldn't do our archery demo which was a big draw, or make arrows or have bows. ok we still have additional crafts that we demonstrate. but today we were told nope we can't demo because it's cutting in on the buusiness of vendors. how can a demonstration on wood turning or cardweaving cut in on vendors? we're not selling our goods!

arghhhhh!!! we've done other events down here and have been a hit they have really enjoyed our presence because we've been able to offer something not commonly found at ren. we don't put on fake scottish accents or parade around "look at my sword". we've just have treated it as the inclass demos that we've done before and people have gotten a kick out of it. they've gotten a hands on approach and have been able to handle both our tools, armour, what have you.

at this event we've had to turn away people from participating because they didn't want us to have patrons within thhe camp. we had a pair of young girls that in nov in our last event had stayed pretty much the whole day at camp learning how to make pasties and loom and needle point. they actually came looking for us to do it again and we had to tell them no sorry but apparently FLARF has a different definition for interactive.

so that's it. the organizers want us back next year because our camp looks great! our clothing looks awesome and we look like the soldiers around the list in Rene d'Anjou. yet we're getting all of this flack because we strrange clothing, have bows, and polearms, and crafts annd demos? mixed signals or what?

this ren fair has really burnt me out.

Db

[ 03-13-2005: Message edited by: LHF ]

--------------------

Db

Brent

The Higgins Faire is the only exception to that rule. It's an armory museum, so they understand these things.

--------------------

not many pictures i'm afraid. the conditions were very poor. we were camped between gypsies and the local bash-em up live steel group and it would take extensive photshop hours to edit them out so we took few pics. though there's a great pic of our "mascot" wearing my standard an a green acorn cap.

we had an event in november that i'll be cleaning up next week and posting on our site, which is still underconstruction.

Db

[ 03-14-2005: Message edited by: LHF ]

--------------------

Db

Write up a summary of what you are going to do, especially the stuff that you've been hassled about and how you want to do it. Then, as a condition for your attendance, have it signed by the general manager or whover is in a high enough position for the yahoos who've been hassling you to pay attention. This also relieves you of legal cuplability in many aspects so in case something DOES happen, they can't blame you as uninvited.

--------------------

quote:

---

but no, i'm obscene and the "scottsmen" running around sans underware isn't.

---

They wanted horses, but then they wanted diapers on them when they "found out" that horses pooped. They wanted the horses out where people could get photo ops, but not if the horses could step on people. Give me a break.

It was madness and we finally said no more. It was one of the best decisions we ever made. RenFaires aren't for education, they're for entertainment for drunken yobs and that's about it.

On the other hand, I really enjoy participating in the timeline events- I just wish they weren't quite so military oriented.

Just my opinion-

All because the one woman in charge is going through "the change", and is a psycho-hoser-beast. My last response was that we would return when she was gone for good.

--------------------

quote:

---

RenFaires aren't for education, they're for entertainment for drunken yobs and that's about it.

---

Having spoken to a member of Renfair group who, somewhat memorably asked me if the Scots had steel weapons in the 14th century and if I oculd prove that, as well as seeing just how execrable his group was, I can only concur with this statement.

The first and second longest running 15th C. events in the US had to be cancelled this year due to lack of insurance. If we can't find a way to obtain insurnce for events, who knows what will happen in the future.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan F:
It does, however, beg the question why aren't there more re-enactment events in the US like we have over here in the UK?

---

Largely because of ren faires, and that the SCA is not a large presence in the UK, as it is here. The SCA got a foothold long ago and has grown into a very large club (~30K members) here in the US and usually absorbs anyone interested in "Medieval stuff". People interested more in the theatrical side of history (mostly Elizabethan) wind up with any number of the hundreds (yes hundreds) of Renaissance fairs here.

Probably best to leave it at that lest it stir up a hornet's nest.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan F:

It does, however, beg the question why aren't there more re-enactment events in the US like we have over here in the UK?

---

Maybe you folks should send us some of your castles and other stuff.

Seriously though, we're just not surrounded by it around here like you are there. I don't think we have quite the public interest either. When history geeks around here go to a site, they generally expect something having to do with the history of the site, that is, F&I war, Rev War, Civil War, etc. I think that supply and demand is at work around here. If you go to Mount Vernon, expect to be waiting in line *forever* to get in to see the mansion.

I think most Americans don't see medieval history as 'their' history. It is, for many of us, but it just doesn't fit in with the sites that are available here. For most Americans, the middle ages are about theatre, shows, going to see movies, Camelot, not about history. Which is why they're perfectly happy to go to a Ren Faire or Medieval times restaurant.

I think the bulk of the people who are interested in actually *doing* medieval "stuff" are interested in it as a getaway. A little spice to their normal lives, and not all that much in the historical aspect of it. Of course, there are exceptions. There are a lot of people in the SCA who wish to do it more right, and wish there were an LH group in their area. I know a lot of people who just have that feeling that the SCA is not what they were looking for, but didn't know about LH. I think the potential is there to be tapped. Within the big tent of the SCA (which allows pretty much anybody with any standards) people form households. Households can be as exclusive or inclusive as the members want them to be. I see the potential that like minded individuals could get together, form households with like goals (authenticity, correct interpretation, same location and time period), within the SCA. When the group has matured enough to find it's own identity, it can then break away, and become an LH group by its own right. I think it happens sometimes now, and I see it as a phenomenon that needs to be encouraged. And I think the more we make ourselves known, the more we'll encourage the masses to improve themselves.

Greys recently went to an SCA event as an unofficial activity. We had about 10-12 people. Most crossovers, but many for whom it was their first SCA event. It was fun, relaxing, a little jarring for a few I think, but we made a big impact there. I think we left quite an impression.

Charlotte's comments also go a long way toward explaining why so many Americans think the Middle Ages were a time of legend inhabited by witches, dragons and evil Black Knights, as if the period existed in some alternate universe but not on Earth. It always astonished me that people would seriously believe in those things but I suppose the disassociation may make it less real to them.

I speculate that many Americans don't think much about their ancestors beyond the point at which they set foot on American soil. Certainly for my first generation American parents and grandparents, the understanding was that they had left the Old World behind and started fresh in the New. For some of my family, it was important that the horrors of what they left behind in Europe stay in Europe. Once they hit American shores they reinvented themselves as new people. It would stand to reason then that the history of these "new people" would start and stop at America's shores.

Very interesting points Charlotte, thanks for bringing that aspect into the discussion! It’s certainly given me some things to consider.

Having recently actually DONE this (putting on a major reenactment), I can tell you that it was for everyone involved a breath of fresh air. With only a few exceptions, virtually all of the participants were from Ren Faire backgrounds, and had never done a "full immersion" type of event, and were, as far as I could tell, uniformly impressed and excited by the idea of it.

In short, I think that most of the people who would be good candidates for a Renaissance-era reenactment have gotten too lazy, and used to the idea that "someone else" puts up the money for the site, insurance (as we are ALL discovering, it has WAY too much influence on what we can and can't do) and everything else to do with holding an event. In return the organizers require participants to jump when they say to jump, and the participants are totally at the mercy of the producers of the event. But it's easy, most people simply show up, do their "gig" and then go home. The entire concept of reenactment is bastardized with the Cult of the Renaissance Faire and its commercial/theatrical focus.

I've been doing Faires since 1981 (heck, I was even a kinda-sorta bigwig for the Northern California Renaissance Pleasure Faire in 1984, but THAT didn't last long, LOL!) so I've had a lot of time to ponder them. But I've also done a LOT of other reenacting, be it Mountain Man, American Civil War, English Civil War, American Revolution, Cowboy Action Shooting etc., and THEY find their own sites, incorporate for insurance, etc. and survive quite nicely doing what THEY want to do, not what someone else insists that they do.

I take pleasure in noting that both Jeff Hedgecock and company, as well as Bob Reed and company are also doing just that too. I think it's an absolutely necessary step to take, and although it starts out small, hey, look where the American Civil War guys are now. In 1960 there weren't a whole lot of them, but now they can muster full-sized CORPS for their reenactments, and sometimes they have more guys and artillery on the field for a particular battle reenactment than was there in the first place! Just takes time and exposure.

In many ways I think the SCA has been a boon of sorts rather than a hindrance (though it is a sea-anchor at times!) They are a focus for a broad spectrum of interested parties, and although for the most part they are far more interested in the history of the SCA than the Middle Ages, still, they are a HUGE organization, and a pool for lots of good folks. But they have to be taken for what they are, and if you find good folks within, hey, great. If not, well, next time. But I give them credit, they don't sit around waiting for some entrepreneur to put together the site and insurance for them before they're willing to go out and play. It's getting harder and harder to do in some regards, but by the same token, I think that it is absolutely necessary to do in order for the hobby of Medieaval/Renaissance era reenacting to grow past it's own rather stunted present.

Again, my kudo's to those groups and individuals who ARE out there organizing events on their own hook, it's the only way to actually make something of this hobby other than being unpaid "actors" for some major faceless corporation, or a bunch of shrill confidence men on the make.

Just my happy thoughts!

Cheers,

Gordon

--------------------

Gordon has some good points. I would also like to point out that the Ren Fair brass have also become very lazy. They know they can get any goober to show up in a cotton pirate shirt, muffin hat and turkish trousers (with fringed mocassins)* to work for peanuts (or for free), so they really don't care if you have a stellar impression. You're just another carny. They want something for cheap or nothing. Anybody in some kind of costume who can do a cockney patter and hawk a turkey leg is fine with them.

Yes, I'm not a big fan of the Ren Faire...as living history. As a fun way to spend the day and do some shopping they can be a hoot, but I prefer my reenactments to go lighter on the celtic knotwork leather doublets, fairy wings, and Conan impersonators.

Neb/Squire Bob

*or cotton peasant blouse, lace-up fantasy bodice (boobs must ooze out in unnatural shapes), cotton handkerchief hem skirts and fringed mocassins...if you're a girl.

--------------------

quote:

---

Maybe you folks should send us some of your castles and other stuff.

---

Well, we did sell London Bridge to an enthusiastic if somewhat ignorant chappie from Arizona once....

quote:

---

I speculate that many Americans don't think much about their ancestors beyond the point at which they set foot on American soil.

---

But if that's the case, why do so many Americans claim Scottish or Irish ancestry at times?

quote:

---

They know they can get any goober to show up in a cotton pirate shirt, muffin hat and turkish trousers (with fringed mocassins)*

---

An improvement on some of the groups I've seen, trust me.

The problem is scale, and transportation. Dans group in Florida is about 1200 miles from my group in New England. The Middle Atlantic groups are 400-600 miles away from us, and we play together. Chevalier is clear across the country, on the other coast, some 3,000 miles away, and he wants to joust in as historic a fashion and setting as possible, which the other groups in the US concentrating on the 15th century aren't really geared to. Unlike England and the Continent, our options for transportation pretty much stink - it is harder and probably more expensive for us to go that distance over here than over there where you are. We don't have a rail infrastructure worth a damn for transportation of people, flying can be nightmarish - I don't know how many have tried to fly with their kit since 9/11, but the prospect for something going wrong, and kit being lost is pretty daunting I imagine. That leaves packing the gear up into a car or a truck and driving

We are precisely trying to put together a larger event - the Retreat to Calais event I had to cancel this year, due to lack of insurance is supposed to be an event all the 15th century groups between the US and Canada can attend, although realistically it is a bit far for some. Last years event had people attending from as far away as Texas - a good 2000 miles distance.

When we get insurance for next years event, which is already in the planning stages, we are inviting all the existing 15th century groups in the US and Canada, and hope to see a large number of people there - but for us, I estimate we maybe have a couple of hundred 15th century reenactors between these locations. That would still be a small event by comparison to some of the English and Continental events. European reenactors have an invite as well, but I don't know how realistic trans-atlantic flight would be for you all. The invitation is open though, if any want to come.

--------------------

quote:

---

European reenactors have an invite as well, but I don't know how realistic trans-atlantic flight would be for you all.

---

In our case, Jeff and I bring our modern clothes in our carry ons. Jeff's personal item is a laptop and I have a small travel bag with flight essentials such as protein bars, water and books. That leaves us 280# of stuff spread over 4 bags.

Jeff's armour weighs 55#, and his clothing weighs another 30 or so. The cuirass and legs go in a rolling bag with wheels. The arms, pauldrons and helmet go into a duffle bag padded with clothing. That leaves us 2 full bags for fun stuff like extra helmet, clothing, swords, etc.

There are no problems checking weapons, just make sure to pack things securely. Sometimes the TSA looks in the bags, sometimes not. They make a mess when they look, but they seem to close things up when they're done. European TSA people are (in our experience) much better about being thoughtful when they look through your things- at least they disrupt the bag as little as possible while they're looking and try to pack things up again when they're done. American TSA people are a nightmare, because they seem to try to make as much of a mess as they can, then take no care to repack things nicely when they're through. The TSA people in Rotterdam get the absolute highest marks- they completely unpacked my carry on, inspected every single thing down to the zippered compartments in my toiletries bag, then completely repacked it exactly the way I had it, all in under 7 minutes. Who knew that a 15th C. belt buckle looks like a bomb component in an xray! On the other hand, I made the mistake of packing a large pewter order from Lionheart in our carry on for the return trip; once again the Europeans were very considerate in looking through everything and repacking, but the US people dismantled the bag then handed us the contents for repacking.

Info offered because we've been doing it a lot over the past 2 years and perhaps others could benefit from our experience if they'd like to try attending a European event.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan F:
But if that's the case, why do so many Americans claim Scottish or Irish ancestry at times?

---

Durned if I know. It seems to be a particularly Scottish/Irish phenomenon. How many malls have "Heart of Ireland" stores (or whatever they're called), but you likely won't find a Scandinavian store outside of Minneapolis. I don't know if it's because of Braveheart, or because people like underdog stories, or because everything "Celtic" is cool again. Maybe it's because of St. Patrick's day, and everybody wants an excuse to drink a Guinness. It's funny, somebody did a survey on the Armour Archive just last week, and there was a disproportionately large population of Irish and Scot impressions.