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Author Topic: Horse muzzles
NEIL G
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Member # 187

posted 03-26-2002 02:53 PM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi,

Just visited the Royal armouries in Stockholm, and among the expected horse armours etc, I spotted three items identified as "Horse Muzzles" - imagine something like the basket hilt of a sword, but sized to go over the front of a horse' head.

Two were dated (scurely, the dates are actually formed out of part of the design) as 1512 and 1555 (slightly late, I know, but not by much!)

Unfortunately, labelling said very litle more than that, even in Swedish.

All three look solid enough to stop a sword cut - though that doesn't mean that they were intended to, fragile items don't survive well around horses - and rather well-made to be utilitarian items of stable equipment.

I can see why I might want a muzzle on something like a hyped-up warhorse, but I'm not familiar with any comparable items from elsewhere.

Anyone else have any ideas or comments?

Neil


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Fire Stryker
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posted 03-26-2002 03:17 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Neil,

I have seen a few of these in some of the books that we have in our collection. I will take a look when I get home and see if I can get some collection info on them.

Jenn


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Acelynn
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Member # 220

posted 03-26-2002 04:30 PM     Profile for Acelynn     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's very interesting. Are they something that resembles a full face bar grill or something that just covers the horse's mouth?

Acelynn


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Fire Stryker
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posted 03-26-2002 09:41 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I posted a pic of one under the Off Topic Equestrian forum as the muzzle dates from 1562.

Jenn


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NEIL G
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Member # 187

posted 03-27-2002 02:57 AM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi,

The ones in Stockholm are pretty similar to the picture you posted..maybe a little wider spaced bars, and dated a little earlier.

Hockey masks for horses, anyone?

Seriously, Jenn - any data on how these things were used (.....as in "on what occasion", before some smart ass says "well, you put it over the horse' mouth...)

Neil


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Acelynn
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Member # 220

posted 03-27-2002 09:45 AM     Profile for Acelynn     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the picture Jenn, I understand it much better now

My initial impression is that it might be something used when a horse, especially a stallion would be in very close quarters with others. Such as a procession prior to a tournament when you have a group of stallion in close proximity who are strangers to each other? I wouldn't make a case for it to always be used simply because a horse was a stallion. Stallions who are familiar with each other can be kept together stalls and other occassions requiring close proximity....

Ace


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jcesarelli
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posted 03-27-2002 11:03 AM     Profile for jcesarelli   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Modern horse muzzles(which have the same basic form, though not the same structure(materials), are used for horses that have foundered, allowing them to drink, but controlling when and what they eat. The muzzle pictured is so ornate, possibly indicating a ceremonial use(?), but is it possible that someone who was able to own a horse would spend the money to show off, even if the muzzle was being used for practical purposes?

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: jcesarelli ]

--------------------

Joseph

It is the very difficult horses that have the most to give you. Lendon Gray


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J.K. Vernier
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posted 03-27-2002 11:13 AM     Profile for J.K. Vernier   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There are five similar muzzles in the armory at Churburg. One is dated 1556, another 1568. All are tinned iron. The most elaborate is similar to the one Jenn posted, and has dangling pendants which would jingle. The plainest is made up of straight bars with the usual double-loop for the nostrils, but otherwise no decoration. This suggests that the ornamented examples represent the high end of what may have been a fairly common type of item.

There are also five examples in the Wallace collection, and the catalogue refers to other examples in Paris, Berlin, etc. All of the examples I've come across are late 16th century, and are considered to be German (The isncriptions on them are strong evidence). The one in Stockholm dated to 1512 seems to be the anomaly. Is it possible that muzzles were in widespread use, but that most muzzles were made of some less durable material?

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: J.K. Vernier ]


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Acelynn
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posted 03-27-2002 04:33 PM     Profile for Acelynn     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Modern horse muzzles(which have the same basic form, though not the same structure(materials), are used for horses that have foundered, allowing them to drink, but controlling when and what they eat.

And cribbers and biters. Actually I wasn't "dismissing" the other uses of muzzles as addressing Neil's thoughts on the subject.

Most of the metal muzzles you can buy today are of the "eat through" type, as they are primarily used for horses with the above vices. There are some "bib" muzzles that prevent a horse from tearing at their blanket while allowing it to eat/drink/bite normally that are usually of rubber. The current leather muzzle in use by my barn owner for her evil young stallion looks like a basket with a metal ring at the top and bottom and leather strips woven in a basket pattern. However, he can still eat and drink normally though it. I have also seen canvas muzzles that have a "breathing hole" in the bottom front but resemble feed bags. Given though examples it seems entirely possible that some horse owners paid for "fancier" muzzles while other ones constructed of materials not so likely to last have vanished.

Ace


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jcesarelli
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posted 03-28-2002 09:57 AM     Profile for jcesarelli   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Acelynn:
And cribbers and biters. Actually I wasn't "dismissing" the other uses of muzzles as addressing Neil's thoughts on the subject.

Acelynn,

I was not implying that you were dismissing anything, my apologies if that was the way it came across. One of the problems with written replies is you cannot hear the tone associated with a comment.

What I meant by my comment is, except for the materials, the design of the muzzles has not significantly changed, so my question becomes, would the uses have changed all that much either?

--------------------

Joseph

It is the very difficult horses that have the most to give you. Lendon Gray


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Acelynn
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Member # 220

posted 03-28-2002 11:38 AM     Profile for Acelynn     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
I was not implying that you were dismissing anything, my apologies if that was the way it came across.

I didn't assume so, but I wanted to make sure you realized my intent as well You are right, the written word makes it darn hard to tell.

I *think* you are probably right in your assumption from the standpoint that certain items of hardware in the horse world have seen few changes from their original development since the essence and need for the design is still the same. IE the basic shape of a horse shoe, the basic design of a European stirrup, bits, etc are, in many cases, very similar to their historical counterpart. I cannot prove that of course but it does seem a reasonable line of though to follow.

Just my two cents (or pence or groats, whatever works)

Ace

[ 03-28-2002: Message edited by: Acelynn ]


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NEIL G
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posted 05-10-2002 02:49 AM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi;

Just back from Copenhagen (I travel around europe a lot with my job), and managed to fit half a day visiting the Royal Arsenal museum there.

Guess what - yet more of these steel horse muzzles. There's a fairly plain one dated to 1550, and a more elaborated, gilded one associated with the feild and tourney armour of Adolf, Duke of Gottorp-Pullegau.

Don't ask me what "associated with" means - it's in the same display case as the armour, and the labelling wouldn't even fill a business card and was in Danish anyway.

Once you start noticing these damn things, they start turning up everywhere, don't they?

Neil


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