Hauptmann

quote:

---

Hey all,
While the bone plate covered saddles are very interesting as art objects, I'm not sure how much they really tell us about medieval general purpose riding saddles. I don't think they tell us anything about side saddles.

There are many (probably as many as 2 dozen) of these bone covered saddles extant. Most references cite them as of Bohemian origin, from around 1460, and most often call them parade or ceremonial saddles. They even may be associated with the "Order of the Dragon" in eastern Europe during that period. In any case, probably the most reasonable normal application they may have been used for was hunting, and even that's doubtfull.

I can't even imagine riding for very long on a saddle as hard as those. Even an unpadded leather seated saddle is unconfortable unless it fits your butt exactly. Carved bone panels and my ass would simple not be compatible.

What about you all?

---

Well I think I have dismissed the notion that it was side saddle related long ago and haven't really pursued it.

I find Western saddles to be uncomfortable to sit in for any extended amount of time. They are wide and the leather hard, so I would have to say that I would find sitting in a wooden, bone/horn covered saddle would fit into the same catagory. However, you never know until you try. One might be surprised.

Because I am now practicing a couple different equestrian disciplines, due to having worked for a couple different trainers. I have ridden in a flat saddle, forward seat english, dressage seat, and stock seat (western) as well as in the traditional Mongolian that I own and a Barb saddle that belonged to a friend. Type has a lot to do with the comfort of a saddle. If it is a little too small or a little too big, this can make it uncomfortable. A custom saddle for any discipline can be made for about 4-7K these days, but they are worth it, if you can afford one. In fact, the peruvian paso saddles remind me of medieval war-saddles in design and detail, and I always wondered if anyone here had approached a custom saddle maker about doing a special design meant for a larger horse. Has anyone here?

It seems that saddles are a lot like armor. If it doesn't fit, it's gonna hurt you to use it for long.

But for absolute discomfort, nothing can beat a CHEAP saddle. Unfortunately, if it is a crummy saddle, made badly, unbalanced for either general rider usage or horse anatomy, from cheap leather, by people who don't ride, then no matter what the discipline you are riding in, that sucker is gonna hurt you. A soft saddle can make your back hurt, if it's too wide in the twist.

A hard saddle (if made to fit you,) will sit you right over the center of the horse's motion, and unless you slouch and TRY not to sit properly, you will not become sore. A good saddle sits you with your weight where it needs to be, to align your back with the horse's spine, and put you right over the center of that horse's balance which we call the "sweet spot".

The problem is, if anyone else gets in that saddle, or if that saddle is put on a different horse than it was meant for, you could have a problem. I know a trainer who has eight different saddles, each one from a different maker, for each competing horse in her barn, and she discourages her students from riding in them, because that might change the character of the seat, on those saddles built for her. Each saddle is made slightly differently, and so it would stand to follow that certain saddles fit better on the very different structures of the individual horse's back and shoulders, just like we prefer different cuts and styles of pants than our friends might be comfortable wearing... We are all built differently, and so are our horses, even if they are all of the same breed, and so require different things from our individual saddles. I would never give a blanket endorsement of any saddle or even riding discipline, but instead would urge the rider to go towards what is best for HIM.

So it's not as simple as one might first imagine. Saddles and their comfort can be more than just a Hard vs. Soft issue. But having watched my husband with his armor, I have long decided that being fussy about my tack is not silly, it is common-sense.
Therefore I think each person who has responded to this thread can be correct in his assessment of each style of preferred equipment, simply because, in the end...its his horse, and HIS backside!

OT: not too long ago I watched a PBS special that followed Julia Roberts to Mongolia. She stayed with a mongolian family out on the Stepps and it gave you a real insight into the daily life of the Mongolian horse culture. The gave a run down of the saddles used including that boss that encourages you to keep standing. Your Mongolian saddle sounds intriguing, I would love to see a picture of it.

At the moment our humble saddle collection only contains a modest A-Betta Cordura synthetic endurance saddle (mine, is very comfy for my horse and me) and a leather saddle of the same design. Our horses have just turned 3 years, one in April and one just this past July 1. As they are still growing we didn't want to invest 2-7K into saddles that may not fit them in a year.

In the meantime I was searching for a medievalesque saddle and had initially settled on the Sela Portugesa as there didn't seem to be a lot in the offering here in the US. While not historically correct for our time period, it gives a good "impression" of style and a kindred design and beats, hands down, a modern western saddle. It has a long history as does the Paso saddle, but extant saddles from our chosen time frame 1470s (Burgundy), at least in Northern Europe, do not follow these designs.

In my communiqués with the owners of the Iberian Connection (IC) in California, they said it was possible to fit a larger horse, but relaying this information to the saddle makers in Spain and Portugal could be problematic at times. IC did not recommend having headstalls made as they didn't really have a grasp of fitting the larger horses. IC said that even after several times to fit larger horses, it still wouldn't be right and recommended that headstalls should be created domestically. Even saddles that were purchased for larger horses (with tracings) at times needed to be adjusted and if shipped back could take quite a while to get it right and could be somewhat costly to boot. But this is pretty much true of any circumstance where you have a distributor and the maker is actually in a foreign country.

quote:

---

... I always wondered if anyone here had approached a custom saddle maker about doing a special design meant for a larger horse. Has anyone here?

---

I am actually preparing some designs this summer and plan to talk to a local saddle maker to see if he might be interested in making a few general purpose saddles.

Now a Real honest to God war saddle like those Henry V and Friedrich III would use are really time consuming and not only require the work of a good saddle tree maker, but an armourer as well. I am relatively sure that some folks here may have pursued this to some degree.

One of our friends recently completed a replica Friedrich III saddle c. 1470. It looks fantastic! To catch a glimpse of it, go to the following URL:

http://www.historicenterprises.com/redco/imgs/bates01/07.jpg

This following is a primary gallery page and shows more.

http://www.historicenterprises.com/redco/imgs/bates01.html

Cheers,

Jenn

--------------------

Let me know if I am barking up the wrong tree, but you do mean that you wanted saddles like the ones used as traditional Spanish saddles, most often seen on Andalusian horses? If that is what you are referring to, regarding the Iberian Connection saddles that are suitable to you, then I think he could help. I remember seeing pictures of some of the traditional Spanish saddles in his office YEARS ago....and I belive he made them. It should not be hard to get the same style, made with a custom tree.

I could also chase down some of my Andalusian/Friesian breeder friends and see if they had any recommendations for other saddle makers, if you wanted a saddle like the traditional Spanish/Portuguese. And I might be able to chase down a Peruvian saddlemaker to see if he could make a saddle that was suitable for a large size horse.

These might be your best bets, but I admit right now-- like everything to do with horses, it's costly. If you are in any way interested in having a properly constructed tree for a big, round shouldered horse, it might be worth it, to both you and your animal. I will look for some phone numbers, if you guys are interested and let me know. Then we can post em here, and see what comes of it.

Personally, I like the Wintec saddles for their adjustable tree, and versatility. It's a good product, and it's priced right. Especially if you have more than one horse, but not enough money to buy each one a custom saddle made to fit. Talk about an elegant solution to a problem!

I will see if I can find the website.

Brenna

--------------------

Surely we could have a local custom saddle maker take the order! It is far easier to get the saddle made, or re-stuffed, adjusted and fitted correctly, by an artisan that is local to your area. Then if there's a problem, you even have legal recourse. Out of the country you are kinda out of luck, once you have sent your money. If the artisan puts you on the back burner, you can't hurry him up. A local guy is subject to local laws....

Have you ever tried to get custom work of high quality done out-of-the-country?

It's very difficult. Standard saddles are hard to get right, once ordered out of the country. A specialty saddle would be harder yet to get going in a timely manner.

I know that Zayas is in the 619 area code, and local to most of the folks who post on this board. I am surprised that you would rather send off to *Scandinavia,* when with a little looking around, you could get someone nearby.

There are a lot of custom saddle makers in this area. Let me get those numbers, and post em.

Worst that can happen is that you'll hate the saddlemakers, *then* you can order something from the other side of the planet. But why mess around and maybe financially commit to that, when you could have done it cheaper, locally?

I wish I didn't sound so high and mighty. I don't want to. I just have made some expensive mistakes before, and I would hate to let anyone repeat them, if I was there to warn them of what could happen.

And, any good saddle guy can restuff/reflock panels, so you don't have to send it back.

Local guys are great options, when you have those options. I guess I'm just used to NEVER having those options as a dressage rider because ALL the good stuff has to be imported.

Brenna

--------------------

Whoops, better be quiet now before I get my fingers rapped for drifting off topic.

Brenna

--------------------