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Author Topic: Medieval training
Kassandra
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Member # 64

posted 10-26-2000 07:51 PM     Profile for Kassandra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Greetings,
I am new to the list, but interested in horses in the Middle Ages, and have looked over past topics/library etc and have been impressed thus far with the conversations (and lack of arguing about how big warhorses really were )

I have been an SCA member for many years, and helped found the equestrian activities in our 7 state region. I am tired of fighting with folks who do not really wish to do recreation, and, despite my research, article writing and promotion of period games and cavalry use, am tired of folks continuing the path they are on. I wish to do more the REAL thing (I made armor for my horse) although I am not into jousting and its consequences(call me wimp) but am interested in all other aspects of medieval cavalry.

I am currently training my horse to deal with being struck by objects so he can get used to combat scenarios (kind of a medieval "sacking out" I suppose) My husband, who has done much research on the medieval arms manuals, and I plan to work on some of the moves from horseback (from Fiore) and I am curious to know of anyone else looking in that direction.

I have, in my research, found little on actual "training" techniques for horses, and would like to start a topic to see what others have or haven't found. I have seen some Duarte, and look forward to more translations, and have Dr Sydney Anglo's book (when I can wrestle it from my husband).

Thanks!

Kassandra


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chef de chambre
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posted 10-26-2000 10:52 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Kassandra !

Welcome aboard ! There is a later manual in German that discusses it (the name escapes me - it is late 16th early 17th c.). A copy of it is actually in a local bookstore - for a whopping $800 plus. If I didn't have serious monetary commitments to horse training and harness at the moment, I would have gone and picked it up. I'll have Jenn post the title later.

------------------
Bob R.


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Kassandra
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posted 10-27-2000 06:57 AM     Profile for Kassandra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the response. Is it a translation? (hence the high price maybe?)
It is amazing what I have been able to find at our university library. Granted, most of my research has to do with a bit earlier in the middle ages (7-14c), but I did uncover some interesting stuff, and the French book I found was useful (my sister translated some of the plates for me)
Despite it's early origin, Maurice's Strategikon was a manual used by nobles throughout the middle ages in regards to cavalry tactics. The unfortunate thing for us is that we cannot gather those numbers of recreationists to make it work! I am working on a modification/translation of commands to make it useful for smaller numbers to use (essentially like drill team work, which all cavalry would have used to some extent depending on the culture)

Kassandra


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Fire Stryker
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posted 10-27-2000 08:32 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Kassandra,

I believe the book is the 1616 edition of Kitterkuhnst (I think I spelled it wrong ). Nope, it isn't translated. I believe the price is high due to the rarity of the book.

Fortunately, I believe a lot of the plates and most likely the ones that are most useful from this book are shown in the Anglo book. So if I were everybody, I would hold onto that $800 dollars.

We just received a copy of "The Armies of the Duke of Burgundy". It covers some of the cavalry aspects of his Grace's army. We should have some of it translated and hopefully up soon for folks to look at.

[This message has been edited by Fire Stryker (edited 11-06-2000).]


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Mel
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posted 11-05-2000 09:00 AM     Profile for Mel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I haven't seen much of period technique, I doubt there is much for my earlier periods

I put a very basic guide to training for Horse archery on my www.horsearchery.co.uk site. I train for horseball which is very physical so if you want ideas on how we do that I'll wibble on if you like

Mel


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Kassandra
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Member # 64

posted 11-05-2000 09:29 AM     Profile for Kassandra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Greetings Mel,
Checked out the site. Looks like Kassai's bows and saddles. Do you know any of those folks in the pics?
I just finished writing about training for horse archery myself, for Society Hoofbeats. It stresses some techniques for the rider that were taught by Kassai at the International Horse Archery Festival this past fall.
One thing that really needs to be stressed regarding the horse training. They MUST run in a straight line when you drop the reins. Run them in a haybale "chute" until they get this. This is crucial for any medieval warhorse training, as it is mentioned time and again in the chronicles.

Also, there is no real need to train your horse to drop its head and neck when you drop the reins. Unless you are on an unusually tall horse with an upright neck posture, you will have no problems.

Another thing I noticed about almost all the pictures is the position that the archer is drawing to on their body. It is too high, more like a field archers draw rather than a horse archers draw. You need to pull to the center of your chest, right at the breastbone.(called a loose anchor)

Just my comments. By the way, the second International Horse Archery Festival will be held in Ft Dodge Iowa again next year. Yup I am going and this year so is my horse!

Kassandra


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hauptfrau
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posted 11-05-2000 03:11 PM     Profile for hauptfrau     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Mel-

I notice all of the disciplines on your site are non-European. Have you done anything with medieval European reconstruction?

Gwen


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Fire Stryker
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posted 11-06-2000 01:29 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Run them in a haybale "chute" until they get this. This is crucial for any medieval warhorse training, as it is mentioned time and again in the chronicles.

What chronicles are being discussed? Hoofbeats I am familiar with as Friedrich let me borrow his to read them. I found some articles very useful.


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Kassandra
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posted 11-06-2000 06:07 PM     Profile for Kassandra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry, my bad. I didn't explain things well enough.

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Kassandra
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posted 11-06-2000 06:14 PM     Profile for Kassandra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry, my bad. I didn't explain things well enough. And then I press the wrong button to top it all off. Modern training of horse archery and/or training to get your horse to run in a straight line is to make a "chute" or line of haybales against the fence, making a chute about 4 ft wide for the horse to maintain a straight line when you drop the reins.

As for chronicles that dictate the necessity of having your horse run in a straight line, I would have to hit up my library and get back to you. I have long been advocating this fact since I discovered the Arabic "reed" game, which is similar to the SCA's "beheading" course, a game that is kin to modern polebending, hence my dislike for it (because I am here to do the medieval, not made up modern games pretending to be medieval..) Many opponents of mine have said that "they would have run in a weaving pattern" and I have countered with quotes from the chronicles, stating that it is desirable to have a horse that runs straight, and does not weave etc. Now, please don't take this the wrong way (as others have..) they DID know how to steer their horse, and did so. Most of the arguements came from the fact that you didn't use cavalry against infantry in the manner that Hollywood suggests; that cavalry against cavalry is what worked, and that running among the infantry behind the sheild wall is a good way to end up with a dead horse and dead yourself or ransomed.

Anyway, I will step off my soapbox now...Hopefully I am preaching to the choir! : )

Kassandra


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