I think Anne of Bohemia was credited with introducing this riding style into western Europe.

Many of the contempory paintings of the 14th and 15th centuries show women riding side saddle, yet I don't think I have ever seen what a medieval one would look like. I have seen photos of the carved riding saddle, but I don't think it is designed to wrap one's leg around.

I'll have Jeff try to post it later.

See for yourself and decide.
http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/sidesaddle.html

Thanks, I visited the website you provided. She has indeed done her research. Unfortunately, their don't seem to be any extant 15th C. examples of a side saddle (which is what I am really hoping to find), though I am convinced based on much of the pictoral evidence that I have seen, that not all women rode side saddle.

I often find myself wondering if it was this impractical means of riding that caused Mary of Burgundy's premature death; a riding accident.

If the information I have seen on how a medieval, not a modern, side saddle is constructed is true (basically two stirrups hanging from one side or a runner-type board hanging on one side of the saddle (no horn to wrap your leg around depending on the saddle design) and sitting facing directly to the side not facing forward as we do today), a medieval side saddle on such events as hunting would seem a dangerous proposition and not very practical if you had to get somewhere in a hurry such as Margaret of Anjou and her Lancastrian army fleeing that of Edward IV's in 1471. I tend to think that the "ladylike" decorum of side saddle riding would be quickly cast aside for something more practical as sitting astride.

This is why I am investigating this topic as I want to do more than just disguise a modern saddle as its "period" counterpart. I don't want to settle for what looks kinda right when I can find or have made a more authentic saddle, though sometimes we have to settle because the alternative is just too expensive for those of us of somewhat humble means or we can't find an extant example from our chosen timeframe as a model.

Bob and I are planning a visit to the MET and the Cloisters in NY. He tells me that they have 6 of the carved riding saddles and I plan to bring my camera with me for detail shots. With any luck and a little planning perhaps a weekend run to the UK may be in order to visit Leeds to see their equestrian show and their collection.

quote:

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And, sorry Gwen, in Le livre des cl'eres et nobles femmes MS. Fr. 599, f.67 a Lady is shown riding astride in full plate armour. She is wearing what I think is a salade with visor up, chainmaile mantle, high courters on Gothic pauldrons and full leg armour. Her metal plackart is shown over a
velvet?

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Jenn (sounds like Gwen)

PS - English?

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Easily distracted by bright shiney things.

Anyway, just wanted to comment that from now on I will refrain from commenting on any of these "what women did or did not do during the Middle Ages" conversations. You all are my friends, and I don't want to stir up hard feelings with my opinions. At the same time, don't be offended if I refrain from accepting your commissions for specifically modified boy clothes (like hose with no codpiece) for you girls who want to do "warrior women" impressions for your living history groups.

Juno sucks and I'm pretty much lost in my sister's Internet program, so I'll talk to you all when I get back to my own computer.

As far as the hosen issue, I agree with Gwen. Whether or not you are playing a Female warrior or a woman in disguise, I would wager that they would wear a pair of mens hosen. Being immediately available and also disguising their sex from a pedestrian inspection.

I too shall refrain from going down this path, as it is a prickly one and I am a very BIG thorn. LOL.

Comments?

Robert Coleman, Jr.

Some of the sidesaddles look like bucket seats for an old Mustang! On the ?brass? "Allegory of Vices and Virtues" it shows one woman side to the left, and one to the right. Also note the small baselard dagger on the belt of the woman to the right side. They also show a sidesaddle and speculate that it has the horn like a modern one and date it 1495.

That is the type where you site sideways on a saddle, nope even my dear son (who bounces better than me & can do most things on horseback ) declares that a bad position !

>a medieval side saddle on such events as hunting would seem a dangerous proposition and not very practical if you had to get somewhere in a hurry such as Margaret of Anjou and her Lancastrian army fleeing that of Edward IV's in 1471. I tend to think that the "ladylike" decorum of side saddle riding would be quickly cast aside for something more practical as sitting astride.

I believe a few rode astride in skirts (this is pretty easy) My personal view is they 'may' well have rode astride in male clothing too. Unfortunatly given we generally judge male/female in ms by their clothing it is pretty hard to prove.

>This is why I am investigating this topic as I want to do more than just disguise a modern saddle as its "period" counterpart. I don't want to settle for what looks kinda right when I can find or have made a more authentic saddle, though sometimes we have to settle because the alternative is just too expensive for those of us of somewhat humble means or we can't find an extant example from our chosen timeframe as a model.

What is you idea for a period side saddle ? ie what do you want to do in it or with it ?

Mel

I have no ideas for "period" side saddles. I have seen a lot of women riding sidesaddle in contemporary 15th c paintings and illustrations, but you usually only get a glimpse of the saddle. I haven't seen a photograph of an extant one. Does anyone have a picture of a real one, not in a drawing or painting from this time period? If so, I would be most interested.

I was wondering about the construction and such.

Sorry that was a very French way of putting it what it means is what is your reason for wanting this information, for what ideas (conceptions etc) do you want the information. For instance do you want to ride in it, paint a pic of it or whatever, hope that is clearer ?
> I have seen a lot of women riding sidesaddle in contemporary 15th c paintings and illustrations, but you usually only get a glimpse of the saddle. I haven't seen a photograph of an extant one. Does anyone have a picture of a real one, not in a drawing or painting from this time period? If so, I would be most interested.
I will look through my side saddle books for you but I think it is unlikely
>I was wondering about the construction and such.

Construction is very much a matter of conjecture I understand for most early saddles as there are few survivors, even astride saddles.
>As far as purpose... it would be used primarily as a parade piece.
I would never take a jump in one.
Understood, will see what I can dig out, have you looked at the Osprey books ? No actualy examples but the Norman Knight one and the Roman Cavalry man (which are too early for you) have good drawing for those aiming to reconstruct saddles. Again these are hypothosis more than anything else.

Mel

Friedrich gave me Ilaria's web address and she and I have exchanged a few emails. Seems she has been researching this for awhile. From there, I became more interested in what really was the method in which ladies and non-noblewomen rode. Obviously they rode either way based on a wide variety of images from the time period.

From there, my quest became...has anyone seen or have photos of an extant example, not just a painting. Apparently saddles are extremely rare. So now the trick would be to build one, and ride in it.

Gwen made me a beautiful Margaret of York dress and I thought it would be nice to at some future point, do a "Daily life" portral of a noble hunting party and not just do the military camp thing.

We have a massive osprey collection, nevermind the other books . My concern would be keeping it in the 15th c timeframe as it appears that styles and construction did change over the course of time.

Now you have my thought process on the whole thing...and how it all started with a painting.

That is on a pad (or is at least in the Spanish style )

>If you have a list of books, just send it my way and I will find and dig through them .

My side saddle books are very old 19th C an extreemly rare, I doubt you'd get them easily, but I wil lok trough & tell you when I get the chance Storms are keeping us bust here !

Mel

There are so many things I've not had time to do since I've been fighting the bad guy developers and trying to get Jeff elected to the local Planning Group...

You would be surprised what I can find out there on the Internet. Just ask my internal accountant who has been groaning over the finances.

We have a book that just celebrated its 300th Birthday "The Memoirs of Olivier de la Marche". When the horses go for their training, our schedule will open up considerably and we should be able to start really translating some of these books we have.