I'm looking for information on any groups doing 16th C. German (no need to go into how there wasn't really a "Germany" yet) re-enactment. I'm aware of the St. Max's Landsknechts, but am looking for something more along the lines of a Ren-era Marxbruder. Does this exist?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Patience... If we haven't answered it's because we don't know. Jamie who frequents the board is the only one US east coast that is any good I'm aware of.

There is apparently a smashing group in Continental Europe if the photos in "Medieval Military Costume" by Gerry Embleton is anything to go by. 1520-30's Landesknechts are done in the US, but they are usually Renn Fair troups, and the only ones that seemed reasonable are out in CA. Most are dressed up in mediocre costume otherwise.

Perhaps Jamie can give us an answer.

Maybe I should provide some more details and be a little more specific in my request. I've seen lots of Landsknecht groups, but that type of "military performance re-enactment" is not what my historical fencing group wishes to do (no offense intended). We are interested in demonstrating the training of a late 16th C. Marxbruder-type combat guild and wondered if there were any other groups out there already doing that.

If not, that's fine. We can use the primary sources at our disposal (something we'll do anyway) and build it from scratch. It would just be nice to get in touch with anyone who has already blazed a trail, so to speak. BTW, I apologize if my requested subject is outside the purview of this forum.

I've been meaning to order Mr. Embleton's book for a month and I guess it's now time that I did.

Again, I sincerely appreciate any leads, contacts or other relevant info anyone can provide.

Thanks,
SPF

Just my opinion, with patented Wet Blanket Action™

Thats 20 or more years after Philpot died! I though the officer with the slashed leather jerkin looked good.

Sean, I don't think anybody is doing what you propose to do. Generally groups portray military personel (or a p[ortion of them do)because 1. we don't have any Medaeval backdrop to use for a justification of our living History efforts, and 2. We need a reason to put up pavilions to make such a backdrop. As Gwen points out, Medieval people did not just go camping, so it's a tourney or military expedition.

I've been giving this some thought. It would be supurb if your martial studies group went for the full effect, because I believe the clothing itself is very relevant to the form of the martial art. Having worn turnshoes, brais, shirt, hosen & doublet while practising Talhoffer, I know first hand it affects movement. The clothing doesn't restrict what you are doing, but you move a little differently in them, if you know what I mean.

As I said above, the reasons we as Medieval living history groups inevitably have a military theme to what we do is the lack of a proper 'stage' for our activities to do otherwise. However, I think you might be able to do the same thing to a degree without going that route. As a for instance, you have the raison d'aitre, that of a combat training guild. For a background, you could find a well designed gothic revival stone church. Some I have seen include a 'cloisterd' courtyard (some Universities have similar as well). If you could obtain permission to use such grounds for your presentation you could have the full effect, scenery, clothing, and some props to give a glimpse into what it may have been like to do what you are doing, both for yourselves and observers.

You can still gain the same effect to a limited degree by having as much relevant equipment as possible as authentic reproductions. You obviously need to rehydrate yourselves. Instead of going off to a bubbler or water cooler, set up a take down trestle and board, and have members get items such as reproduction mugs, jugs, drinking bowls and keep a couple of jugs of appropriate refreshment set up. Imagine your impeccably clothed 16th c. 'gentlemen' breaking off practise, to fill up their mugs or steins out of a reproduction jug and slake their thirst. It keeps the feel of the era going.

Make a good reproduction of the sort of aides that masters of fence used, like the diagramme of the human body divided up to show the areas of attack. Basically, I reccommend to do all you can to give the room that you will be doing your practise and presentations in the look & feel of a Rennaisance 'salle'. It would be a lot of fun, and it would add to the 'feel' of what you are doing.

The more you surround yourself with objects of the era and place that are appropriate to what you are studying, the more you will place what you are doing into a historical reference. The more you do this, I believe, the more valid your experiments are, and more so as demonstrations to the public. You would be in essence practising a very limited scope living history with a very narrow focus, but in general the more narrow the focus, the more accurate the picture that is formed.

I hope that this gives you some good ideas, and you can make use of some of them. Ginevera is actually a student of Medival and Rennaisance clothing in a very serious fashion, and I'm sure she can give good advice on this forum to guide you through a treacherous and confusing path of study of 'costume'. Much of what has been published on the subject over the past few cenbturies is dross, but there are some very good references out there. Don't re-invent the wheel if you don't have to.

I've followed the "why military vs. other types of re-enactment" threads and it has always made sense to me why U.S.-based groups such as yours re-create the campaign environment. You can't really depict Medieval city life without a Medieval city, now can you? Some groups are able to effectively practice drilling and training, while others are content to focus on the mannerisms and appearance of the historical figures or peoples they portray. Hopefully, after enough research and careful planning, we'll be able to pull of our version of both.

Your setting suggestions are excellent and I appreciate you taking some time to come up with ideas for me. We may pursue them in addition to the obvious setting, faire. I've read accounts of "mobile" fechschules setting up in a town square or other similar open area for the purpose of prize-playing or the like, and that would be perfect for a university demo.

We do aim to construct (as you mentioned) cutting diagrams, pells, etc... with which to demonstrate actual training, as well as provide some plates from historical manuals reproduced on large canvas banners.

As well, you touched on the spirit of our plan - to maintain a narrow focus and not attempt to do "too much." We don't even want to get into where we sleep, how we cook, etc..., though the period cistern/cask (again, great idea) is something we'll probably have. We are fortunate to have some knowledgeable historians and anthropologists in our number, so authenticity will most certainly be a guiding factor in whatever we do (which, I'm sure will be under constant revision!).

Not re-inventing the wheel is really the reason I posted here (ironically, on the "Re-inventing the Medieval" forum), but it doesn't much look like our "wheel" has yet been invented.

I'm sure I'll be posting on the "Lifestyles" forum for clothing guidance (Ginevra, I'll introduce myself to you shortly.) and I look forward to more academic exchange with you, Chef.

Thank you,
SPF

I understand about the many hats thing, but how on Earth do you fit more than one of those giant, fluffy, puffy pizza things on your head at once?

More to come, I'm sure...

SPF