I am about to post information about an event I'm trying to organize for my SCA Tournament company. It is not a living history event or a re-enactment. It is not a public demonstration nor is it an SCA event.

It is my humble attempt to raise the bar a bit among my friends. Though the company is no where near the level of Authenticity as the Red Co. or Wolf Argent we are trying to change that. This is shakey ground for us. It's easy to be more authentic than the SCA but not at all easy to gain even half the authenticity of the previously mentioned living history groups. I appluad your efforts and acomplishments in this field.

This is my attempt to inspire some, open some minds, and weed out those who arn't dedicated enough to move out of their confort zones.

Any constructive critisism is welcome.

Hello everyone. The Company of Saint Gabriel is planning to hold an event
on November 18th. The event will be a feast celebrateing the English saint
Edmund. This is not a re-enactment of any specific feast but rather a
re-creation of a feast that could have happened during that year. We have
considered having one of our members assume the role of a lesser english
geltleman that would have lived in England at the time and could have held
a feast for his friends and neighbors. Everyone will be encouraged to
develope a personality that could have existed in 1363 England to attend
the feast. There will of course be restrictions on rank because we don't
want anyone comming as the Duke of York and useing a presonage that wasn't
the Duke of York. Though I have considered letting some people come as
known individuals but I'm not certain. SCA Personas are fine so long as
they fit with the setting.

We plan on having a field for open challenges and a gallery for viewing and
entertainment but no formal tournament. We don't expect a large enough turn
out. Harness are expected to at least look accurate for the date of 1363
give or take a decade. We also intend to restrict the use of bar grills and
basket hilts as well as other obviously modern construction methods and
materiels. We will probably allow standard SCA weapons for this event
though we are encouraging people to construct weapons without the use of
duct tape. In other words covering a rattan batton with a leather sleeve
and or other construction methods that make them look more like medieval
battons or weapons. We also may allow the use of rebated steel weapons
useing the proposed steel fighting rules for the IMA.

We are expecting a maximum of 30 individuals with about half of those
combatants.
I would like to impose authenticity standards but with the group we are
expecting to invite it may not be an issue. Basically you are expected to
come in dress and harness that would be documentable and fairly common for
the time and place. What do you think of this proposal? Does it sound like
a good idea? Are there additions I should make? Do you have any
suggestions? This is intended to be a social event for our company and not
an educational demonstraition. With that in mind I would like to encourage
the participants to remain in character throught the event and speak of
thing that would have been appropriate for the period and engage in
activities that pertain to the period.

There are things we may change like the exact date and go for a date where
something major occurred so there will be a good subject of conversation.
We considered November 18th 1356 which would be about two month after the
battle of Poitiers which if I'm not mistaken was 644 years ago today. That
would be a hot topic to talk about or in 1369 the Hundred Years War resumes
which could also be a good topic. I'm going to try and nail it down in the
next couple of days. Your suggestions are welcome.

If you are at all interested in attending this event contact me privately
or post here. It will be held in Kansas City. We have a site in mind and we
are trying to get it pinned down. As soon as I have more information I'll
post it.

Reguards
Duncan

The first step is always the most important one - it starts you on the road. I think your idea is an excellent one, and I wish you all the luck in the world. Don't feel 'inferior' - we are all on the same road, it's just we started a little while before you did.

Nobody knows it all. Don't be embarrased to ask questions (I ask em all the time). The more you learn, the more you will realize you don't know.(what I don't know would fill a warehouse.)

Welcome fellow traveller.

What do you think of this proposal?
For what it's worth, I think it sounds great. Very much along Jeff and my initial faltering attempts to do something more historically correct while we were still in the SCA long before the Red Company was glimmering anywhere.

Does it sound like a good idea?
Sounds like a splendid idea. If your folks have half the fun ours did, the idea will catch on - with some. The rest will just be happily confused.

Do you have any suggestions?
If you're having a feast, make sure the person cooking feeds them something yummy. If the cooks go out on a limb and produce something vile it will cast a pall over the rest of the event. The memory gets fuzzy but the stomach never forgets.

Give a cool, historical prize to the winner, like a big, gaudy fake jewel with a spray of ostrich plumes behind it for a hat pin. I found the pin at Ross or some place like that for $15, put the feathers on myself and we presented the thing on a velvet pillow. Very cool. I've got a painting of a winner of a tournament winning a big fish, but something tells me that wouldn't be a popular prize in modern circles....

Make sure everyone has fun, or they'll never want to do it again.

We had a basket lunch sale to help offset the cost of the prizes, decorations, etc. The ladies donated basket lunches and the men bid on them. The high bidder on each basket got to have lunch with a charming lady. Since everyone was on their best and most courtly manners, it went swimmingly and we more than covered expenses.

Lessee.....we hired a musical group so we had music during dinner and live dance music....Jeff did such a good job with the feast that he was awarded the Order of the Golden Fleece by "Charles the Bold".... the blue blancmenger could have been a disaster, but it turned out the fighters all loved it....I made a pie with live chicks in it- when "Edward IV" took the lid off, one of the chicks lept from the pie directly into his beer glass.....

*sigh* it was a great event. I hope yours goes well!

Gwen

P.S. I should mention that I met Duncan in person at Pennsic, we had a long talk and I don't think he's an ass any more. Pax

I think your idea is wonderful. It is usually a good idea to have your ground rules established so that participants will know what to expect, as you seem to have done.

You are on your way. I think you will find a lot of people here willing to help in any way they can.

Bon Chance!

I think it's a wonderful idea--this is the direction I'm taking my own tournament company (The Noble Company of St. Maurice). I saw the posting you accidently sent to the TourneyCompanies board, and the ideas a quite sound. Now if only I could get out that way, and get armour in the period...hmmm.

A point to consider however. Presuming that there *are* some people who would like to participate that are otherwise "uninitiated", how much time do you plan to allow for preparation of kit? Are you going to go the traditional route of spreading the word about the tournament? Will thrusting or combat "a-outrance" be permitted?

Will equipment (both combat and civilian dress) be urged to be of a properly strict standard? Armor of mild steel? Clothing of wool, linen or fustian, with rare instances of brocades, silks or cotton? From reading your post, I assume it will, but it bears asking.

I'd be *very* interested to learn how the tournament and festivities work out, and am excited to find you're going that route.

Robert Coleman, Jr.

Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

How do you plan to handle it if someone shows up in Middle Eastern clothes (for example)?

This is one of the main reasons I participate in SCA (that and I really enjoy the combat) is that the open or should I say lack of any focus lets me study the time and area of most interest to me. I work hard to have a good level of accuracy (though much less than even a beginner living history participant I fear). Its a middle ground that has little place in any of the groups.

When I see things like what Duncan is doing I have a great desire to participate. I also realize that what I'm doing doesnt nessecarily fit in.

So to close my odd ramblings, thanks, I was wondering....

Develop another portrayal that is appropriate for Duncan's event and go enjoy yourself.

IMHO, doing several periods is not being unfaithful to your main area of interest, it's a chance to expand your repertoire a bit.

Our Coustilier Wilhelm rides with the North Carolina Cavalry (ACW) and doesn't wear his doublet and hose when he does, he wears ACW kit.

Bob R. does the same thing, but he does some sort of Union footsoldier impression.

Hauptman and I have some kicker Victorian clothes that we wear when we attend Victorian balls, but which would be completely absurd at a RedCo. event.

If something about Duncan's event makes you want to participate, go and use the event as an opportunity to "flirt" with another period, even if it only amounts to a cool new outfit.

As a side note, when Jeff and I did our 15th C. English event , we noticed that the folks who were not wearing 15th C. clothes were pretty uncomfortable. They looked like they didn't belong, and I think they felt out of place. What they were wearing / portraying didn't fit into the "theme" of the event, and if adversely affected their enjoyment of the event. I believe they would have had a better time if they had exchanged their Viking / Mongol / Chinese clothes for something 15th C like the majority of the attendees.(we offered to loan clothing, or help make appropriate stuff)

That's my 2¢ !

What about knights errant? Would it be possible for Janos to keep his Russian impression and still participate in a tournament in another "country" maybe not England, but what about Germany, France, or Italy? Didn't some knights make somewhat of a career out of journeying to and participating in tourneys?

I really want to know. This is not an area of specialty for me, but one that I think is worthy of exploring.

As Peder suggested, maybe you can find a reference to a dipolmatic envoy being at the location at that point in time. You do not have to be the envoy, but could be a member of his entourage. The tournament could be given in celebration of the visit. Much like Antoine of Burgundy who participated in a tourney in England during Edward IV's reign.

There was a Chinese diplomat in France in the 15th c. who described Paris as being a "filthy little provencial town". Don't know what type of celebrations or lack there of they had durning his visit. I seriously doubt he participated in a Pas. It does show that there can be such visits. I think that it is possible, though I don't have any evidence to support this idea, that a Eastern European/Middle Eastern person, could have been in Europe and might have participated in such events.

If the tournament is to be held on "English" soil. It might be tough trying to find evidence for such a visit/participation. Does anyone know what the political climate was in Kiev during the 14th c. or who or if they had any connections to the Western European countries. How about marriage arrangements between noble houses in Russia and Western Europe? I am trying to think of probable causes that might help explain or even lead to evidence that supports a visitation/participation in a celebratory event.

FYI- Bob does ACW Artillary (5th Mass Battery Co. E).

Sorry...I am starting to ramble.

I don't think any re-enactor out there doesn't have his hand into multiple time frames - next weekend I'll be putting on some 'spif' Scottish gentry clothing, tucking a 'white rose' into mae bonnet, taking up claymore, targe, dirk & musket and striding out into the field for the true King of England, Scotland, Ireland, & France Charles Edward Stuart! Tchearlaigh! Tchearlaigh! (also know less than affectionatly by his enemies as "That cowardly little Italian fellow" - but I'm all for him till he abandons us after Culloden.) A proud member of the Atholl Brigade - Hurrah for Robertson of Straun!

Addressing the question in specific, I think it is possible to travel about within the bounds of reason in a Medieval re-enactment, but time travel should be 'right out' .

There really ought to be a good reason for a person to be there as well - nobody travelled exessive distance for just going 'walkabout' - people were either on diplomatic missions, mercantile ones, or were pilgrims. It tends to ruin the flavor of an event for re-enactors if the Chinese diplomat turns up fighting for Loius XI in 'The War of Public Weal' - his place is in Louis court, his attitude is to leave as soon as humanly possible to get back to civilization - he would have in no way risked his life for the benefit of a barbarian chieftan the likes of Louis Onze.

On the other hand, Soldiers were extremely well travelled - all of Christendom was the professional soldiers field to plough. We occasionaly turn up rather solid evidence for unlikely fellows to have been places - a Spanish professional soldier was present at the backwater battlefield of Redmore (Bosworth) in the household of Richard III, and to him we are indebted for the only firsthand account of the battle written near in time to the events that took place. It is a little muddled, but it is the only such account existing. It was found within recent memory.

The Burgundian army of Charles the Bold was extremely cosmopolitan, with English, Waloons, French Burgundians, Fleming's , Savoyans, Italians, Germans (including Swiss) all serving together in considerable numbers. I would not be overy surprised to find Spaniards and some Eastern Europeans in this polyglot, but they would be single individuals, they would be clad and armed for the most part as Western Europeans in order to fulfil their job functions, and they should be a rarity. They would have done their best to fit in, not stck out like a sore thumb, as tolerence of peoples differences is a modern, not a Medieval virtue.

As a Re-enactor/Living Historian, mixing time periods at the same event (unless specificaly a timeline event) has absolutely no place whatsoever. I would never show up at Duncans tourney with my 15th c. gear & persona, as it has absolutely no place there - it and I would not have existed concurently. I would view myself or anyone trying to force such a melding not so much as trying to have fun in participating, but deliberately tring to spoil Duncan and other participants fun as some sort of protest - a slap in the face at his attempt to portray a specific event at a specific time. If I lived closer, I would seriously consider putting together proper late 14th c. clothing to participate in some capacity, as it sounds like fun. I could not afford to put together a historicaly accurate harness appropriate for a man at arms of the time, although I might be able to cobble together an accurate portrayal for a lowly footsoldier.

Those of us who like multiple time periods cannot afford the impressions of the upper classes (and most assuradly that is what a knight or Esquire is) in each time period - at least not to the level of a historicaly accurate portrayal. I think we that are interested in Authenticity should bear that in mind. So while Bob might consider a late 14th c. portrayal, it would have to be as a common bowman, crossbowman, or paviser. A harness of the quality a man at arms or knight would have is too expensive a proposition for multiple time periods.

So, to recap in brief, IMO 'foriegn' impressions a tentative thumbs up - only so long as it is within reason for the person to have been there in reality - Samuri and Mongols at Nancy 1476 are 'right out'. Time travelling is a definite thumbs down.

Your tentative thumbs up on the idea as well as your reservations make perfect sence. I am in the process of getting a 2nd kit together as well that will help in some of these situations, though not in the time traveling aspect. My new kit is a late 14th cent German kit. I'd probably get more milage out of another period as well as location but I just love the time period.

Thanks again, I'm rambling now (watching the kids will do that to you).