Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
»  FireStryker Living History Forum   » History   » General Research   » Research help- 14th C. "woodsman"

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Research help- 14th C. "woodsman"
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 12-07-2004 09:02 PM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi all-

A fellow emailed looking for information that unfortunately I can't help him with. If anyone can help I'm sure he'd appreciate the info.

--------
Basically I was interested in reading about the king's forresters in the 14th century, or just in general if sources arent that specific (any country too, I dont discriminate, I cant find a single thing doing a google search), and draw conclusions on 14th century behavior from that. More than a huntsman though I want to know where to look for information on the groundskeepers, from all accounts I have heard they were a combination of game warden, bounty hunter and park ranger all wrapped into one, and that facinates me. Anything I might be able to order or ask a bookstore to order for me in English would be great.
----------

I think the fellow lurks here, so I'm pretty sure he'll see any answers posted.

Thanks!

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Friedrich
Member
Member # 40

posted 12-07-2004 09:54 PM     Profile for Friedrich   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I wish I had a written source to refer to but I don't. However, in the spirit of discussion, I know of an example where this is true to this day.

In Germany, hunting laws and hunting rights are exceedingly elite and financially restrictive. (You have to study for years to attain a doctorate level of knowledge and then financially have the ability to pay to get admitted to pass the exams and be admitted to the regional hunting club.) To earn hunting rights, you actually lease a tract of land. Additionally, if game from that land causes agricultural or other damage (such as ruining farmer's crops), you, as the lessor, are financially responsible for the damage.

Anyhow, back to the original topic. My uncle has leased a large hunting estate/lands in Germany that has always been a hunting retreat for the regional Baron in central Germany that originates back to the medieval period. This is a large tract of land (with hunting manor) that is managed by a "Game Warden" who holds the position with the responsibilities that you describe. Having met him once years ago, the position has been an appointment from the Baron and included responsibilities of state game warden and ranger. And, at the time I didn't understand and didn't know any better, he had mentioned that there was other theoretical "sheriff type" responsibilities dealing with criminals. And, yes, if you aren't licensed and get caught... Although I suspect that my uncle has had certain "agreements" with him for awhile...


Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tim Merritt
Member
Member # 624

posted 12-08-2004 12:37 PM     Profile for Tim Merritt     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I offer no research help, but the photo's on this site are great: http://www.middelaldercentret.dk/us_home.htm Check out the hunter pic with the deer on the second page of pictures. Suppose it's possible that someone in this organization may know something about that period's hunters and woodsmen.

Off topic--the house construction pictures really bring it to life.

--------------------

Tim


Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dave Key
Member
Member # 17

posted 12-08-2004 02:51 PM     Profile for Dave Key   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If you are seriously interested in medieval huntsmen then I can't recommend strongly enough John Cummins 'The Hound and the Hawk, the art of medieval hunting'. London 1988

It has sections on the Huntsmen and falconers as well as the actual hunting.

But in a very simplistic way you need to consider what sort of 'woodsman' is to be represented ... from commoner who grazed his animals in the afforested land to the charcoal burner and bodger (though bodgers are a bit later than medieval I suspect) through to fewters looking after greyhounds all the way to the men charged by the King to manage his forests e.g. the Woodvilles for the forest of Bere in C15th England who had management but probably little hands-on role.

Have a think about what sort of representation interests you and we'll see what we can come up with to help.

Cheers
Dave


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Drachus
New Member
Member # 700

posted 12-16-2004 07:18 PM     Profile for Drachus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for inquiring for me Gwen =)

The thread about ranger's perked up an interest I used to have and thought it was just some fantasy about outdoorsmen in the middle ages.
I am attempting a 14th century german persona, and the more tidbit's of information I find the more it seems a plausable reenactment

I was mostly curious about the ranger/warden/bounty hunter aspects. Were these sort of people restricted to specific hunting area's only, or did they police all of the king's lands(or whichever nobility they were serving).

What other or occupations would have been available someone who made thier livlyhood in the outdoors but not by farming(think of a 14th century Davie Crocket or Grizzly Adams)

We're these same people considered member's of the fighting class? I could easily see one of these type's of fellows getting called up to serve in campaign as a scout, archer or footmen, such as in the Hundred Years war(dont know of any major campaigns in the holy Roman Empire at the time, I'm sure there are)

The best information I have found thus far is about a guy that does a Robin Hood reinactment in Sherwood Forrest as part of a tourism thing. I wonder how much is historically correct and how much is dressed up or out of period for show purposes.
http://www.robinhood.ltd.uk/robinhood/Forest_Survival.htm

By the way, please tell me what all he is wearing? It looks like a padded linen coif, might even be a wool one, wool nockert hood(I wish I could see the rear to see if there is a liripipe on it or not), a wool bocksten tunic or coathardie(but in the 12-13th C.!?), some sort of short sleeved overtunic of which I have never seen a reference for(maybe the infamous "houce" which was worn to protect against precipitation?), some odd sort of midcalf boots, and wool chausses. I suppose what looks like a nockert hood could be a cloak, it looks like there is a clasp on it. I'd assume a St Louis shirt underneath and some kinda brais? Cant see either.

I take most information I find on the internet with a grain of salt until verified by people such as yourselves ) Let me know what you think.

Edit: I reread the article and I think he does say what all he is wearing, except for the short sleeved tunic. any idea what that is? Any thoughts about the leather hooded cloak he mentions to keep the rain and wind off?

[ 12-16-2004: Message edited by: Drachus ]

--------------------

Siegfried Schwarzenegger


Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 12-16-2004 08:33 PM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm on my way out the door and won't have access to a computer till tomorrow (mine's in the shop ) but here's my initial impressions.

-Couldn't make it through the entire article I'm afraid, too much bombast, and to many statements without anything to back them up. Hardcore iconoclast I am, even the photo with Tony Robinson didn't impress me. And being responsible for more than a few outfits used by interpreters, I know firsthand that "museum quality" can mean almost anything.

- Outfit looks OK from what I can make out. Leather poncho is weird.

-In the article I think he's referring to a "culculus" which is the most basic form of hood and dates back to before the Romans. I'll pull the references on it tomorrow. Basically a big cone with a hole cut out for the face. Made of leather, it certainly would be good protection from the weather.

I'll have a better look at it tomorrow, right now gotta jet!

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Edward MacTavish
Member
Member # 774

posted 03-30-2005 09:42 AM     Profile for Edward MacTavish     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Check out the Hunt Guild
http://donwenna.homestead.com/HUNT_GUILD.html

Edward


Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Wolfe Argent Living History

Copyright © 2000-2009 Wolfe Argent Living History. All Rights reserved under International Copyright Conventions. No part of this website may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage or retrieval system, without permission of the content providers. Individual rights remain with the owners of the posted material.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin Board 6.01