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Author Topic: Assumptions regarding "The Black Prince" by Sedgwick
D.W. Peters
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Member # 330

posted 12-03-2003 10:41 AM     Profile for D.W. Peters     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I am reading (yet again) "The Black Prince" by Henry D. Sedgwick and have a few of my own conclusions that I would like to verify with those more knowledgeable.

According to Sedgwick a rank-by-rank breakdown (think management chart) of a military force loyal to King Edward in 1346 was as follows:

1 Earl leading 8 Bannerets
1 Banneret leading 12 Knights
1 Knight leading 4 Men-at-Arms
1 Man-at-Arms leading 4 Archers (1/5 mounted with another 1/5 not archers, but spearmen)
+ a small number of Hobilars

Now as I understand it, a Banneret was a Knight who leads under his own banner, correct? Furthermore, am I correct in my assumption that a Hobilar is someone who was required to maintain a horse for military service and serves as a ‘light’ horseman? I have seen it spelt ‘Hobbler” and “Hobiler”for that definition, but am not sure if this is meant to be the same word or not.

From there Sedgwick goes into per diem pay and presents the following (apparently from an actual journal of the times):

Prince £1
Earl 6s8d
Banneret 4s
Knight 2s
Men-at-Arms 1s
Mounted Archers 6d
Hobilars 6d
Footarchers 3d
Welsh Spearmen 2d

According to "Daily Life in Chaucer's England" by Singman and McLean (which presents the same wages for the same positions) a "s" = shilling or 12 pence, was 1 day's earning for a gentleman and roughly equates today to $50, "d" = penny, was about the cost of 1 pound of butter and roughly equates today to about $4 and "£" = pound or 20s, was about the cost of 1 carthorse and roughly equates to about $1,000

Now, the one thing that puzzled my feeble mind here (after comprehension sunk in regarding out the monetary UK to USA per diem conversion) was that Sedgwick mentions, for the first time, "Welsh Spearmen" whereas earlier he mentions spearmen of no particular nationality. When the Welsh fought for the English during the Hundred Years War, which was taking place at the time he writes about, were the Welsh generally hired on as spearmen, or did they fill other combat roles as well? My only conclusion thus far is that whatever journal he has gleaned his information from makes note of "Welsh Spearmen" and so he listed it as such. Would others agree or disagree with this?


Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
D.W. Peters
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Member # 330

posted 12-05-2003 01:54 AM     Profile for D.W. Peters     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the reply!!

I will look into the book you mentioned as well as some of my Wesh related books for reference to the spearman/archer geography you mentioned.


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Dave Key
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Member # 17

posted 12-08-2003 08:00 AM     Profile for Dave Key   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What he is almost certainly referencing is the surviving lists of Edward's armies which do give a detailed breakdown of the composition of the army. This has been published and I've got a copy somewhere but not to hand. I'll see if I can find it but I'd check the bibliography in your book for the primary sources. It is in a collection of papers ... probably a title close to the theme of 'Letters illustrative of the Hundred Years War' but don't quote me on that. Certainly it was in amongst other later documents.

Sorry for being so vague, I'll try and be more precise tomorrow

Cheers
Dave


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged

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