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Author Topic: How to Research w/o Primary Resources.
Wes
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Member # 251

posted 11-29-2001 06:27 AM     Profile for Wes     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As someone living in middle Tennessee, I have the problem not having access to many primary resources. Of course I have access to many museum photographs and books such as "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" and photo books of the Bayeux Tapestry and The Maciejowski Bible from my college library. However,I find the selection somewhat limited and much of the subject matter either conjectural or very general.

Also, there is the problem of making sure that the illuminations in some books are from the late 14th century time frame I want to depict (as an example: Illustrations of Crecy, Poiters, and Agincourt made in the mid/late 15th century that show the combatants wearing sallets).

Most of the knowledge I have of medieval dress is from the interpretations of re-enactors with more experience than me. (Example: I had never heard of a huke, a garment I would like to obtain in lieu of the generic cloak, until I saw one in "Medieval Military Costume". Not that I don't trust the book, but if I had one and someone asks me to document it, I don't want to have to say, "I just saw someone else wearing one in a book.")

I'm fairly sure that most Americans involved in medieval living history don't spend several months in Europe pouring through libraries, so I guess what I want to know is this: How can I do reasonably accurate reseach from the resources available to me? Is this even possible? Do I just need to make do with what's available to me?

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Fuimus


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Erik D. Schmid
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Member # 59

posted 11-29-2001 08:24 AM     Profile for Erik D. Schmid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wes,

Just hang around here and ask questions. There are several people here who have spent time in Europe studying this stuff and will gladly help you out. If they can't help you directly they can at least point you in the right direction.


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Jeff Johnson
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Member # 22

posted 11-29-2001 09:47 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You think it's tough doing research now, you should have tried it 10 years ago - pre-internet. So much more material is accessable now. Groups like this one, Book dealers, people selling original and reproduction items. It's amazing what's available.

It's not just Rural areas in the US that have access problems. Through the internet, you have almost as much access to reference material as people in most US Cities. There aren't that many collections in the US and many US museum folks are less than helpful. Chef Bob and his folk are extremly fortunate to have a working relationship with the Higgins, and our group is working towards getting chummy with the Walters in Baltimore. I'd wager that our friends in Europe have problems accessing original materials in some museums or libraries without having some form of credentials. However, I know of a few people who have made arraingements to go behind the scenes in a couple of museums in London and actually handle items (with gloves).

There are professional historians in the US who can be a rich source of material. There is an annual Medieval Historian conference in Kalamazoo, MI you could attend and make some contacts. Some academic professionals can be very helpful, THEY have access to primary material. Be sure of what you are asking for, be professional, courteous, etc... Establish yourself as someone wanting to learn and do things correctly. These people are pros & may have a dim view of most medievalist groups and their liberal/ amateurish interpretation of history.

As for references for something in "Medieval Military Costume", ask here. If no one here can answer, ask the author. Some of the people here can put you in contact with him or arrainge to pass the message.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


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Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 11-29-2001 11:25 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Internet is a wonderful thing!

Most of us cannot lay hands on primary source documents/objects. Mostly because we don't have the credentials needed to access the collections. Our group does have the benefit of being on a working relationship with the local armoury museum; a privledge we take very seriously.

On a brighter note, many places that house Primary source material have some form of reprographic department which can on occasion, depending on what the source document is and its condition, make a duplicate for you for a fee. I have done this before. If you ask politely and explain your interest, the document collection folks tend to be very helpful. Sometimes acquiring a copy may depend on a professional historians recommendation, so making some sincere acquaintances is beneficial.

The thing about many primary sources is that they tend to be in an older form of a language and not easily translated by the lay person. The Medieval romance languages can be a bear to work with at times, sometimes baring little resemblance to the modern version of the language or a word has been exported and reintroduced with a totally different meaning. I have several language dictionaries and have had some success cross referencing when a word in one language escapes me.

Many scholarly secondary sources quote primary sources with a fairly accurate translation with massive bibliographies, verbose footnotes, and sometimes end of chapter notes. With secondary sources, being well read in the subject ahead of time helps separate what is generally good or questionable.

The folks in our "global village" here travel in interesting circles with varied backgrounds, interests, and skills. As Erik says, "Just hang around here and ask questions." If we can't answer it, we might be able to point you in the right direction.


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Anne-Marie
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posted 11-29-2001 11:31 AM     Profile for Anne-Marie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
on digging up primary source material when you live in the boonies....

I spent my formative years out in the wheatfields of Eastern Washington. Pre internet, even . We mined the university library for what we thought were gems...Norris for costuming, etc.

Now, I live in a major city with a huge research library. But my first thoughts on finding info are not the library (I'm afraid its too big for me...I get lost, and they wont let me check out stuff anyway since I went to the "wrong" college ).

1. internet. There are HUGE piles of info on the internet. All those fine art sites, for example, have tons of 15th century paintings you can pore over. Also, many manuscript collections are working to put pictures online so you can access all those fun illuminations.

2. interlibrary loan. A little known secret...you can get ANY book from ANY public library and many university libraries, no matter where you live in the US. if you REALLY live in the boonies, they'll even mail them to your door. Check with your local branch librarian about this. Every library now has internet access and you can access the database of aquisitions for most huge universities, etc. You can even get a hold of photocopies of microfilms of real medieval books (that's how I got my copy of a couple cookbooks...I have a photocopy of the fiche of the real primary source :O))

3. ABE and other online bookfinders. There's a couple books that anyone interested in really sinking their teeth into primary source stuff should buy. The Museum of London series. The York Archeological Series. etc etc etc. Many of these are available on Amazon.com even. Try Amazon.co.uk for the more obscure ones. They take your credit card same as the US version . Some books, like Pleyn Delit you can get at your local barnes and Noble like object. Also, any bookstore can order any book in print for you if yougive them the ISBN. So find out the ISBN from someone here, and order it if you really want it.

There's nothing like discovering stuff for yourself. Dont take any of our words for anything! we each have our own bias and spin (my spin is all middle class burgundian housewife stuff, for example). Ask questions here, and then go and do some more digging to corroborate.

hope this helps,
--Anne-Marie

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"Let Good Come of It"


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fra.hulettaes
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Member # 222

posted 11-29-2001 01:22 PM     Profile for fra.hulettaes   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi, Wes,
It is difficult, I agree. Even going to Europe and looking at real objects was difficult. Like trying to get a Masters in Medieval Decorative Arts in 2 weeks.(as if)
I have a large library of urls which I'm happy to share as are I'm sure most of the list if they know of something you're looking for. One Caveat: the internet is a wonderful place, and I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, you must be as careful looking at internet research as you are with a book. For the most part, you are looking at someone's interpretation of an item or event, since you cannot yourself be there to look at or experience it. Even digitized photos are difficult to discern without that 3 d capability. Even so, it's a wonderful medium and I for one am happy as a tater bug in grub to root around in it.
Good hunting!
Joan the Terrier Diligente.

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Why pay someone to do it right when you can screw it up yourself for free?


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Wes
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Member # 251

posted 11-29-2001 06:52 PM     Profile for Wes     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks you everyone for the very informative replies. What a warm welcome!

Indeed, I am wary of information gleened from the Internet (I'm an English major/Biology minor, prone to large amounts of research)and have avoided turning to it as a source for researh expept for a very few sites.

I have follwed many of the topics on this site for a while and I am thoroughly convinced that I can trust in the advice of most of the regular posters, many of whom always cite primary resources in thier posts.

I was lucky enough to spend a month in England this past summer studying abroad, and I now have a real taste for Europe, so hopefully I will be able to check out some primary resources when I return.

I was actually talking to my Chaucer professor/Head of the English Department today and he informed me of serveral good programs in Medieval Studies here in America that I might want to check out when I go to grad school. So maybe I'll be able to find some really good resources in the next couple of years. BTW, I'm trying to slowly introduce him to the joys of living history; he holds a wealth of knowledge about the literary, social, and political aspects of middle ages and can probably speak Middle English as well as anyone in the US.

Thanks again for giving me some really good insights into research methods! I look forward to posting plenty of questions!

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Fuimus


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Nikki
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posted 11-29-2001 08:19 PM     Profile for Nikki   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This may not apply to liberal arts fields, I have no idea:

In my field (meteorology), if you would like a reprint of a published article in a journal, you can often track down the author on the web (or, the beginning of the article usually lists a contact address for the author). You can then send a letter to the contact (sometimes they have a different contact for persons requesting reprints, like a secretary or something), and ask for a reprint of whatever article it is. They will send you either a real reprint (if they have extras) or a copy of a reprint in the mail. I don't think they care who you are, ie, you probably don't need to be an academic for them to send you stuff. They probably want to be rid of that huge stack of reprints anyway!

This is only good for articles published in journals where you know the author and just have trouble getting a hold of the journal for whatever reason. I've never tried it, since I can get access to just about any journal in existence thru MIT (well, any science journal in existence), but I know the secretary on our floor handles lots of these requests.

I don't know if this holds true for the medieval studies field or what. But, if you know an author who has written an interesting book, you can look online and find out what else they might have written, and then branch out from there. If you are a student, you should be able to get your hands on just about anything in print, altho this may be more difficult for undergrads than grad students. If you have access to it thru a University, I suggest looking up stuff on Web of Science, an incredibly excellent journal search engine which does have databases for liberal art stuff, not just science. And, if you have an older article reference, you can search for all the newer articles that reference the old article! (You can spend hours fooling around with the thing, that and the online facsimile of Philosphical Transactions of the Royal Society of London from the 17th century).


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Dave Key
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posted 12-17-2001 09:12 AM     Profile for Dave Key   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You'd be surprised at how difficult it cn be to get real original material even when you live next door to it. There are certain institutions in the UK for example who are extremely 'snobby' about who can and who can't look at certain documents. However I'll guarantee you can get more primary source material than you can cope with in printed form.

The majority of my 'library' comes from trawling through bibliographies and then using the Inter Library Loan system here in England to get the books (thank good for the London Library) almost regarless of age.

A very useful source is the Early English Text Society ... lots of primary documents printed in the c19th.

Then bit by bit you can piece together the documents you want to look at and that's where the real digging starts ... but as has been said the Internet really helps ... e.g. the Paston Letters are online which is on of the best places to start to immerse yourself in C15th English life.


The Public Records Office in Kew is online for orders (but don't expect help!) ... there is no way of really telling just how big many documents are ... my last oder for 5 docs came back with a not saying "Thankyou for the £10 deposit would you like to pay te rest of the 1100 UKP by credit card or cheque" However if you do order from them I'd recommend the e-mail scanned images as these are actually quite good ... in contrast the "from photographic" images are poor photocopies and almost unreadable

However in contrast to the big record offices I've always found (with a few exceptions) most regional records offices are very friendly and helpful. Send an e-mail to them (even if you don't know exactly who a note to the County Council will usually get passed on). The charges vary but you'll learn more looking at this sort of stuff than rereading many of the famous MSS.

Just remember it's SLOW process and painful and it can be expensive. Focus your research is the key, and be prepared to go off at a tangent.

Cheers
Dave


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