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Author
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Topic: Harley Manuscript
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Anna Kovacs
Member
Member # 142
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posted 10-09-2001 09:44 AM
    
Greetings,
I have a question for clarification--which Harley ms. are you talking about? They have more than five thousand under that collection...if the ms. number is 4425, then you might try a search in the British Library's Manuscript Collection homepage...although last time I checked, the Harleys were not online. However, if you drop an email to the collection librarians, they are extremely helpful, and you can expect an answer pretty soon.
They also have paper catalogs in book format available in main libraries...might try to get the Harley volume(s) (there is more than one tome) through ILL...
Got a copy of it online?
If it's Avarice, it might be a Bible Moralisee, it might be collected sermons, it might be a collection of treatises, it might be the Roman de la Rose...endless possibilities...  Hope I helped a bit...Let me know if there is more, and wish you success!! Anna -------------------- --Soldiers live. And wonder why--
Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged
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fra.hulettaes
Member
Member # 222
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posted 10-09-2001 01:16 PM
Anna,
Thanks for your reply. That is a big part of the problem for me. The Harley Manuscript is 5000 docs. Where does it saw that and what are they divided into? Is there a general info page on this manuscript or should I try to get a catalog. The book I got this image from is 'Medieval Costume and Life' by Dorothy Hartley and there are a number, perhaps 3, images from the Harley MS 4425. But without any other attribution. No folio numbers. I did manage to get a folio number (9) of the MS Harley 4425 but I feel like I'm in a haystack blind. When I went to the BL site, I put that number and name into the Manuscript search engine and got a big, fat zero. Does that mean it's just not cataloged on line? I know I sound like a complete rube, but, this image is totally compelling and I very much want to know more about this document. Are Manuscript catalogs from the BL available in other libraries? I'm hoping to find some reference material here without having to buy the slides one at a time from the BL. Not only are they pricy, but I want to get a good survey feeling for the document, it's time and place of creation and tenor of content before I jump into creating the garb associated with it.
Sorry, not enough coffee yet. Hope this is intelligible.
Joan :-)-------------------- Why pay someone to do it right when you can screw it up yourself for free?
Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged
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Anna Kovacs
Member
Member # 142
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posted 10-09-2001 02:20 PM
Hey Joan,
sure no problem. Good to use those degrees I got for something actually... 
Now about your next set of questions: the Harley is called Harley because the British Library was made out of donations/buyouts of private collections, and one of those guys happened to be a Mr (or Lord, I cannot remember) Harley. And the Brits being conservative and traditional, never re-catalogized the whole stuff, just kept the names like Harley, Cotton Add. (meaning Additional, that is, the 'riffraff' they bought in various places), and suchlike.
Harley 4425 means that it's the 4425th in the catalog taken when the whole collection of Mr/Lord Harley was taken into the BL...and yes, I doublechecked the site, and it says the Harleys are not online yet... I got that zero too...
 So...you'll need to drop an email to the librarians there, the email addy should be on that website. And take a look at your local main library, and talk to a librarian about what you need. They just LOVE complicated requests...you give them something to live for. I am not kidding. My husband did this here in Texas, and they got so excited when he made them hunt down collections of essays about Persian metalworking and weapon production...And in the BL, one of the manuscript librarians sepnt literally hours with him just because he had two more obscure manuscript requests... So, don't give up hope.
A warning note, though--those costume books might be treating original manuscript illos a bit liberally. My classic example is NOrris, whose drawings, when you look up the original, do not ever remotely resemble the originals...So, buyer beware. But I guess this is exactly why you want to doublecheck that folio, and I can only applaud you for it!
Anna
-------------------- --Soldiers live. And wonder why--
Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged
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Gwen
Member
Member # 126
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posted 10-09-2001 05:37 PM
Anna says: "My classic example is NOrris, whose drawings, when you look up the original, do not ever remotely resemble the originals"Interesting that you should say that, as that's relative to my take on Norris - great costumes that bear only a fleeting nod to the originals. True story that I have to share- Several years ago when I was in the SCA, I was at a party at a friend's house, where I found myself in the kitchen with a group of costume Laurels. Not being of the exalted Laurel status, I was being quiet and just listening to their conversation. Since it had been recently reprinted, the talk turned to Norris. Soon, all the Laurels were rhapsodizing about how valuable a resource Norris was, how great the information was, how much it added to costume history, etc. I listened for about 10 minutes before I blurted out "But it's a COSTUME BOOK! The shapes are all wrong, the layers are a mess, and the information is 30 years out of date. It's nearly useless for anyone doing serious research." The room got deadly quiet as all eyes swiveled to me..... I realized at that very instant that I was definitely not talking the same language as those folks. It was no suprise as a number of knowing looks were exchanged as the Exalted Ones™ drifted silently out of the room..... Since the "Leper incedent" (as I have come to think of it) I've kept my feelings about Norris to myself. It's nice to see I'm not a loon alone.  Gwen
Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged
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posted 10-09-2001 02:55 AM
posted 10-09-2001 10:22 PM
