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Author Topic: black armour
lister of smeg
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Member # 523

posted 12-06-2003 08:30 AM     Profile for lister of smeg     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i was just wondering how the black prince got his armour black
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Woodcrafter
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posted 12-08-2003 09:24 AM     Profile for Woodcrafter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
From riding through excessive industrial charcoal pollution in the streets of London.

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Woodcrafter
14th c. Woodworking


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LHF
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Member # 71

posted 12-09-2003 10:51 AM     Profile for LHF   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hello,

if you're looking to see how armour was blackened, i'm sure that you can find several postings on that subject in particular. run a search for "blackening", "blackened", "blueing", etc. you get the picture.

good luck,

daniel

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Db

D'rustynail


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Mart Shearer
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posted 12-10-2003 02:47 PM     Profile for Mart Shearer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Why do you think the Black Prince's armor was black? I have seen one contemporary illustration showing the Prince with his sire showing white harness on arms and legs. Why do you think the name "Black Prince" has anything to do with the color of his armor? Some have suggested it was derived from the color of his personal arms, black with the white ostrich plume and "ich dien" motto.
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Jeff Johnson
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posted 12-11-2003 06:41 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A troll-ish posting, methinks...

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


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chef de chambre
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posted 12-13-2003 10:25 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi All,

I'd ask that you not be unkind to the new fellow, and remind you that not all on this board are as familiar with some aspects of Medieval History as some of you might be.

It is a fair question in my estimation, considering that several readily available and digestable histories of the Hundred Years War mention the Black Prince as 'having black armour' - the key being to understanding that many perfectly good historians can be very ignorant regarding actual material culture of the time they are writing of, with the usual exception of very visible architechture left, or famous paintings. Material culture is not their specialty, and so they perpetuate myth alongside of good historical analysis.

As mentioned, it is not very likely the Prince of Wales Edward as the heir to the throne had armour of munition quality, left black from the forge. His train of sservants, extensive and documentable on campaign would readily be able to maintain a flawless white harness, or even gilt, or covered with luxury textiles that would mark him out as being of his 'station' in life.

Unlike our own modern age, where we consider elegant items not being designed with hard use in mind, conspicuous consumption was an absolute vital neccessity for the family of a monarch (as indeed amongst many lesser noble families) to 'maintain their station', and accounts exist showing items made for field use that most of us in the 21st century would be afraid to put to such use for fear of ruining - wearing a common or cheap armour would take away from a person of his stations prestige as much as wearing and using exceptional pieces would enhance it.

Very likely, his appelation came from his "Shield of Peace" as has been mentioned - or just as likely his vile temper, which was most famously displayed in his last campaign, as well as his office of governor of Aquitaine.

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Bob R.


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Strongbow
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posted 01-27-2004 02:36 PM     Profile for Strongbow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bob,

I've heard the Shield of Peace explanation before... from a tour guide at Canterbury no less (good for him!).

One question though, was the appelation used contemporarily? I've heard that that name wasn't used until a generation or so after his death. Any clues? I mean, "the Black Prince" sounds so cool, it's tempting to use it, but WAS it used?

Strongbow


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Woodcrafter
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Member # 197

posted 01-28-2004 02:44 PM     Profile for Woodcrafter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes the Black Prince is cool. But why not the Black Squire? We know of the Green Knight for the Arthurian legends. But was this common enough to be portrayed?

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Woodcrafter
14th c. Woodworking


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Strongbow
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posted 01-28-2004 07:18 PM     Profile for Strongbow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I guess that's my question... I'm guessing that "Prince Edawrd", "The Prince of Wales", or even "Edward of Woodstock" would have been the usual way of referring to him, but I'm curious as to when "The Black Prince" came into use. It's practically all he is called today. I suspect some folks don;t even know thta his name was Edward.

Strongbow


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