sent ya an e-mail. thought this might be quicker and i could have the opinions of others. we need to buy a set of pole arms. would you recomend the ones by Anshelm?

http://www.anshelmarms.com/weapons.html

if not, who? price range $150 for head only.

daniel

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Db

I'd call it a "rosshinder" or Italian bill myself. It's hard to judge from the photos, but the overall shape looks decent - I have seen some originals similar.

Were I you, I would buy the head, and then buy ash - oak is brast, and ash is historicaly correct. If they are nothing more than props, then you could get away with oak, but if you intend to use them in any fashion (and there are staff weapon drills we have from Meyer that seem consistent with earlier known material), I'd always opt for ash.

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Lutel Poll Weapons

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What are the measurements on your shaft?

Anyone,

quote:

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Originally posted by Gordon Clark:
What are the measurements on your shaft?

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That's a rather personal Question!

quote:

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Originally posted by Gordon Clark:
Where does one get an ash pole?

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You can buy round ones from places like Museum reps, but I'd not recommend that. Theirs are expensive, I've seen warped ones, and round is not a good or correct shape. Some lumber yards carry ash, some can order it. Or, look to woodworkers supply stores like "Woodcrafters". For a few bucks more, they can proably rough-cut it for you too. If you get desperate, let me know - I may have a spare.

Most shafts I've seen in museums seem to be 8-sided. Dunno about Fred's, but the ones we've put on our Lutels are 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" with 45 degree 1/4" knocked off of the corners. Length varies, but a tad under 8' length for the whole weapon seems to work for halberds, and is also good for avoiding most modern American ceilings.

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Thanks for the suggestions- I have a woodworker friend who should be able to do something like that.

Geoffrey beat me to the joke - I was composing the exact same reply when he posted his! Rubble rubble rubble....

Guess I'll have to be quicker next time

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...is also good for avoiding most modern American ceilings.[/B]

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Especially if it has custom fiber tiles!

The historical shafts I looked at were of various sizes but the proportional dimensions depended on a couple of vital issues.

Is the socket square or rectangular? This will affect the shape of your shaft! Most of the museum examples are rectangular. Since my custom Lutel socket came square, I had to adapt the shape.

Most shafts are not symmetrical. This OCTAGONAL shaft with a "long" side with shorter angled and end sides. This will help in your holding the shaft. If your socket is square, your haft will likely be squarer in it's overall profile.

Also, on about every example, the wood surrounding the langlets is angled and not imbedded flat. But that only works if the langlets are narrow in width. If they are wider than normal (such as what happened with my Lutel head), I found leaving the shaft square made more sense, and then I made the shaft OCTAGONAL from the langlets down to the end. Otherwise it would leave the edges of the langlets exposed which I didn't want to do. (Most of the examples of the halberds with langlets had the langlets slightly imbedded (recessed) into the wood rather than just strapped on the outside over the shaft. So, based on my halberd head design, I think this to be a satisfactory compromise in this instance and it handles just fine. In fact, I know Chef has wanted to "take it home" on more than one occassion!

Concur on the linseed & turp, but... the pure stuff leaves the shaft very lightly colored. Next time I may un-purify the oil with a bit of stain.

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I'm clueless today. This is what having the flu with lots of cold medicine does to the brain and resulting math skills.

Dru would you say that they are too heavy then to be properly used in the feild or marched around with?

the specs. given were a weight of 6lbs and a lenght of 46" from tip to bottom of langets i forgot to ask for thickness. how does this compare with lutels?

as far as the socket, i did not ask if it was square or rectanguolar. i will tomorrow.

we prefer to order from someone state side. one of us had a bad experience ordering something from overseas when it got stuck in customs and then got misplaced, (add embelishment over the years as the story was told over and over) well, it's just easier to order from stateside than to argue with them. so as beutiful as the lutel pieces are, i won't get authorization for them because of the whole overseas affair.

we weren't going to order them with the staff in order to cut down on shipping. i'm now working at my schools scene shop, hurrah for power tools, and was planning on ripping the shafts myself. thanks for the heads up on the ash being historicaly acceptable. i think that there is a supply of ash down here; don't know the price though.

Jeff, um thanks for sharing your staff, umm measurement. i'll keep it in mind when i'm, umm, oiling up my own.

seriously, thanks for the info, guys, on the shaft construction. i do remember the shafts up in the Higgin's Aroury beging octogonal. i'll have to search through my pictures to see if i have any good ones. i greatly appreciate the construction note about the langlets being slightly recessed. i don't think that i t should be too great of a problem to make it so. if you have any pictures of this detail please let me know. i'll post an e-mail were they could be sent.

again thanks for the input. please let me know about the specs comparing with lutels and any pics on construction details.

have fun,

daniel

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Db

You can get Lutel products through Art Elwell stateside - it costs a little more, but the dangers of you previous experience are removed.

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(He did not have Lutel products on the site last I looked - you will need to e-mail him for the list and check the Lutel site for pictures.)

daniel

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Db

I understand that Lutels are available from Art in the US, and that Anshelm is out in Calif., so either halberd can be obtained in the USA.

What I still don't get is this: which one is lighter? This may be clear to others, but to me, it sounds like both are sorta heavy. Is there a lighter weight third choice in this price and accuracy range that hasn't been mentioned?

The metalwork on the Anselm heads are 6 lbs alone by my reading. There is no way the Lutel heads are that heavy. Actualy, the Lutel one balances as reasonably close I think as you can expect in a reconstruction not costing twice or three times as much. Of the pollarms Wolfe Argent has, the Lutel pollarms are by far the nicest (barring my A&A Bec de Corbin), followed by an old MR Igtalian Bill (which is a near copy of the A&A Italian Bill, and no longer offered for many years).

We (Adam, more properly) are making a prototype of our own, which we think we will be able to offer to those interested for less than the Lutel, but should be just as good (including having the heads hardened and tempered). It would be a much quicker proposition than the doublet

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quote:

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which we think we will be able to offer to those interested for less than the Lutel,

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One of the things I do not like as much about the Lutel halberd ("Swiss" type, not ronca) is the extra shoulder between the rear part of the spear and the hook, and the upwards curve of the upper edge of the fluke itself. Any of the actual 15th Century halberds I have seen are very angular, almost right-angular; closer to the Anselm look, if not their weight.

What is your model/source for your prototype, and is there a site where I can see the original? Is it one of the older ones at the Higgins?

Sounds like a great project -- Wolfe Argent is an active group!

All the Best

where did you get those two halberds that you showed me on my first visit up your ways? i remember that they were very light and darn pretty too.

daniel

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Db

we just got the heads in today and they are increadible. for the money and turn around time, we went ahead and ordered a pair from Anshelm and we weren't dissapointed. the workmanship is great; plus i like that they are not both "exact" carbon copies of each other (we asked for that when we ordered them). the specs are pretty much the same as i posted earlier, though they weigh in closer to five pounds. we still have to get the ash poles for them and are checking the local lumber yards.

i'll get some pics up after finals.

daniel

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Db

quote:

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Originally posted by chef de chambre:
Hi Kent,

The metalwork on the Anselm heads are 6 lbs alone by my reading. There is no way the Lutel heads are that heavy. Actualy, the Lutel one balances as reasonably close I think as you can expect in a reconstruction not costing twice or three times as much. Of the pollarms Wolfe Argent has, the Lutel pollarms are by far the nicest (barring my A&A Bec de Corbin), followed by an old MR Igtalian Bill (which is a near copy of the A&A Italian Bill, and no longer offered for many years).

We (Adam, more properly) are making a prototype of our own, which we think we will be able to offer to those interested for less than the Lutel, but should be just as good (including having the heads hardened and tempered). It would be a much quicker proposition than the doublet

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Hey Bob,

The prototype is well underway. Adam is looking for a quote from a supplier regarding the raw materials and other details, and then we can have a grasp of how much they will be. Still should be less than Lutel.

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