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Author Topic: Armour points
Veltin Grimm
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Member # 368

posted 10-04-2002 05:17 PM     Profile for Veltin Grimm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi all,

Does anyone know how to tie the knot used for armour points that you see so often in period art?? I have attempted to do some, but I'm having problems controling the tension of the points. Thanks,

Jason

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Jason
Veltin Grimm


Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jeff Johnson
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Member # 22

posted 10-07-2002 08:24 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Which knot do you mean? The knot with the "single" loop? Got a URL with a pic?

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Veltin Grimm
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Member # 368

posted 10-07-2002 05:07 PM     Profile for Veltin Grimm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply, here is a pic of what I'm talking about. I think it might be the single looped knot you are talking about, but I think this one would have two loops.

http://home.gci.net/~grimm/images/pilate1.jpg

If you look at the breast plate of the guy leading Crist, you can see two of the knots I'm trying to replicate.

Thanks,

Jason

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Jason
Veltin Grimm


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Jeff Johnson
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Member # 22

posted 10-07-2002 05:54 PM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ya, thats it. The knot that's used for most everything we'd use the double bow for today and that I rag the guys in the group I'm in that they should be using to tie their hosen & doublets. The way they do it leaves one end longer than the other. (bozos)

Trying to explain how to tie it:

- do a cross-over, passing one under, like you probably do as the first step in tying shoes.

- take the tips of the points between thumb and forefinger of the right hand, making the ends the same length, and pull tight.

- place the index & middle finger of the left hand on top of the tense points(palm down), right up against cross-over. Wrap the points back over the top and completely around under the fingers.

- roll the left hand counterclockwise 90 degrees so you are looking at the palm.

- gently remove the index and middle fingers from the loop while using the right thumb to make and push a new loop of the remaining point into the loop where the fingers were.

- reach over the top and grasp this new loop with the thumb & forefinger of the left hand, keeping the ends of the points still firmly in the right hand.

- work the loop and the ends of the point so the new loop is choked off by the loop the fingers were in and the knot is tight up against the cross-over.

- what you get is a pair of even loops that stay close together, pointed to the left (or up, if tied sideways) and a pair of dangling point ends of the same length going to the right (or down).

- to release the knot you pull the ends like the modern shoelace knot - except it's more secure and takes a stronger tug. Probably why they used it, eh?

With practice, you'll be able to tie this knot as fast as your shoes.

There is another way that involves bringing the fingers under the points and hooking them under while wrapping and then tucking the string between the fingers and drawing the new loop out.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Veltin Grimm
Member
Member # 368

posted 10-07-2002 11:11 PM     Profile for Veltin Grimm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Very cool, this is perfect. Thank you Jeff,

Jason

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Jason
Veltin Grimm


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Bertus
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Member # 308

posted 05-07-2004 04:59 AM     Profile for Bertus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Which picture(s) did you see this method on? (the link is dead)
I've been browsing through webgallery of art's pics of memling and van der weyden but did not find it.

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Bertus Brokamp


Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wolf
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Member # 375

posted 05-07-2004 05:46 PM     Profile for Wolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hey i do it the way you want me too!!!!!! Steveo rags on me too calls me your bitch and everything ehhehe

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Chuck Russell


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Jeff Johnson
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Member # 22

posted 05-10-2004 11:41 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bertus:
Which picture(s) did you see this method on? (the link is dead)
I've been browsing through webgallery of art's pics of memling and van der weyden but did not find it.

Look for any pic that shows someone in their doublet and hose. You'll see the knot - the loops lay right next to each other (like perky bunny-ears rather than floppy) as are the points. In low-resolution pictures, it looks like there is only one bow.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bertus
Member
Member # 308

posted 05-11-2004 05:16 AM     Profile for Bertus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah yes, I've found one:
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI02515b08a.jpg

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Bertus Brokamp


Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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