Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert Carruth (edited 02-12-2001).]

Well, I would classify it as a barbute. It has rthe high point and straight sides more typical of a bascinet. Perhaps it is an evolutionary form - that is assuming it is a genuine piece and not a forgery.

Avid 19th c. collectors and unscrupulous antique dealers (unfortunately for posterity) created a huge market for armour - so huge that surviving pieces could not fill the demand. As a result, there are an enormous number of fakes at large. Most forgeries are readily identifiable by being so made as to be impractical if worn (occularum set to be unusable) and are crude in comparison with many pieces. Some armourers filling the forgerey sellers needs were very skilled though, and some of their work fooled authorities on the subject for years. It can make it a tough call if the provenance of the armour is unknown - like this piece. On the bright side, it looks like it would work - you could see out of it. On the bad side I've never seen a helmet of this form referenced.

Where did the picture of that helmet come from?

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Cheers,

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Craig Nadler
cwn@nh.ultranet.com http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~cwn/armour.shtml

Thanks!

I wasn't the one who posted the picture on AA, I was just saying where a picture of that helmet could be found. I'll see what the book has to say about the helmet tonight.

My opinion,

If it is real, it's been heavily worked on. My guess is that it's not real, probably a forgery. the proportions are all wrong, even for a bascinet, and if it did begin life as a bascinet, it would not have the cheek areas like a barbuta. The nasal and eye reinforces seem almost certainly later additions if the rest of the bowl is real, though I doubt it.

These excavated condition pieces are very problematic, unless you can examine them first hand. Sometimes even then, there are issues....

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Cheers,

Please keep in mind that the book I'm quoting was written in the early 1920's and quite a bit has been learned about the dating of armour since then.

Can anyone post a scan from the Irish Medieval Figure Sculpture book?

Robert

This helmet was published 30 years before Laking, in Gardner's Arms and Armour (Precise title escapes me, but it was published c. 1890). If it is a fake, it is certainly different (and I think, better) than most mid-19th century fakes. I still have hope for it being real.