Craig, Pieter and myself have undertaken a project to produce a couple of 15th c. munition grade Brigandines. Pouring over reference material, Craig has been working on a pattern, and he has made a test piece cutting out plates and sewing cloth for part of the skirt of the peplum. I must say that when I saw the test piece I was very impressed - there it was, laid out in all it's glory, the canvas foundation, the cloth cover sewn in place, the rows of overlapping plates with their triple rivit holes punched out - even with mostly nails holding the plates in place it was very impressive, and the whole construction promises to work beautifully.

On to the questions! I know some of you have made brigandines in the past - Dave Key, I know the White Company has made a most impressive brigandine. So, how did you go about tinning the plates? A not too succesful experiment was tried with tinning some of the initial plates we have - it wanted to flake off.

The first brigandine we are making has a hemp cloth cover, I would like the second and third to have fustian or a more appropriate material. Where can cloth with the linen/cotton weave be gotten heavy enough for a brigandine cover?

Question the third - the rivits. We have available to us round headed brass rivits, but the head diameter may be a little small, and we are worried about it pulling through the cloth (I believe the triple placement of the rivits is designed to help prevent this). Other options are tinners nails, or ordering steel rivits which can be gotten with an appropriate head size. I am of the opinion that brass rivits are more appropriate. The examples we are making would not qualify for having fancy gilt heads brazed on to a steel shank. Any ideas guys? Custom rivits could be ordered, but we would have to buy 50 lbs, and the order would run upwards of $500.

Any suggestions would be appreciated !

Get some box nails and anneal them. They're cheap and flat headed.

Clip to length and pien on the inside of the plates. I feel that steel rivets are more appropriate than brass. 3d or 4d box type nails are best. Don't use "common" nails, they're a bit too thick.

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Cheers,

I worked out a process for tinning the plates. The plates need to be acid cleaned and coated with an acid type flux before submerging the plate in a 700F tin bath.

Way cool ! Glad you worked out the tinning process. Thanks Jeff for the advice on the rivits.

Thanks for all your help,

Craig

It seems reasonable to me that the rivet heads would be tinned if the plates are.

I wouldn't recommend nails bigger than 4d. The shanks get too big above that.

What do you guys think of the idea of using zinc plated nails instead of tinning 1200 to 1400 plain steel nails to save time and money? Jeffrey, would zinc plated nails in a brigandine be up to the standards for Red Co.?

The problem is that you really need to anneal the nails before you use them, which would take off the plating.

I don't like using nails as rivets unless I anneal them first; they're too hard to pein effectively. Annealing them really makes a big difference.

Why don't you just leave them black from annealing; that should be enough of a rust inhibitor. Of course it won't be all shiny, pretty. Remember, tinning the plates will protect them against sweat somewhat because they'll be on the inside, but the arming nail heads will be on the outside.

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Cheers,

Sorry not to have replied sooner. The best replica Brigandines I know of were made by Ian Pyecroft a few years ago but I'm not sure about the tinning process.

There are more covers than simply fustian ... I'm currently working on a source over here in England ... we'll see what transpires. A quick glance at the Howard's accounts shows black, green, crimson (generally implying good quality to allow for the dye) and blue 'cloth' (so probably wool)
alongside fustian and black fustian,
crimson, purple, black and russet velvet
and white leather (i.e. alum tawed)

Do you have good pictures of the inside of the brigandines? I've quite a few if you need them (just have to scan them!).

Please do send along any pictures you can! I am working on one based on A11/802& A12/445 III 1663 in the Royal Armouries collection, as these are the best pictures I have to go by. The details we are fuzzy on is the overlap of the side plates where they meet the front, details around the waist ditto, and the areas near the collar and arm holes.

The prototype is nearly done, and it looks very good, although we used marine nails for it. We have contacted a nail manufacturer who is able to make purpose built brigandine nails, and future brigandines will look even better. We seem to have got the waisting down so the brigandine does have a waist and the peplum flairs out a little (the key is getting the ovelap below the lung plates correct - they are the reverse of the plates on the peplum. That an an angle plate where the waistline is works wonders for the shape).

I am keenly interested in getting ahold of proper fustian. If you could be so kind as to keep us informed as to it's availability, I'd be grateful.

As it is, we need to order far more brigandine nails than we will consume making brigandines for appropriate portrayals for the company, so we ought to have a small number available for those interested. They will not be cheap, costing approx $30 per lb, which ought be enough for a brigandine with moderate sized plate like we are making for an average sized man. Larger people would need more, as would brigandines that used larger numbers of smaller plates.

Kent

"Proto-Brigandine" is well under way. It is actually a very good representation, perfectly suitable for re-enactment or background shots for LH. The prototype is based on an extant example in Vienna (mine is based on one in the Royal armouries and differs in slight details) and is properly constructed with apporpriate material, technique, and is accurate in all ways save it uses bronze marine nails instead of brigandine nails.

I'd say it is a little over 1/2 complete, and the back is what needs to be done now. I don't see why we couldn't take it to the Higgins for the Fair on May 5th, but that is ultimately up to the keeper/owner of the prototype (Craig). I don't see why he'd object to bringing it.

As to the Master of WA's engravings - A good question. You see no closures in any of his series on the Burgundian army, and this could mean one of two things - 1. He didn't bother illustrating the closure detail, or 2. They represent covered breastplates. IMO, the second option is completly improbable, especially regarding the lineup of archers. The ordinances list either a padded jack and mail shirt for an archer, or a brigandine. I think the clue as to what they are is in the detail of the rivet heads. Some of the defences in question show a logical pattern for a brigandine, and in some cases, the rivets could only be decorative (if correctly rendered - which I think they are). In the cases where it is decorative only, these are covered breastplates IMO.

As to coats of plates being used into the 15th c., I sincerely doubt it. There is no reference in art, extant pieces, or in inventories to believe the defence survived in Northern Europe. The chief advantage of the brigandine over the COP is in its flexibilityclosure, and coverage. It would be no more expensive to produce a brigandine than a coat of plate, and as it is a superior defence, there would be no reason to produce an inferior one. The other big clue is in the shape of the defence. A coat of plates by its nature is a cylinder - a construct of hoops. These pictured are very globose in form, which is a property of a properly constructed brigandine (not to that exaggerated depth, but it has a distinct waist and skirt).

I would reccommend to you Michael Lacey's thesis "On the Evolution of the Copat of Plates" as the best information currently under two covers regarding the subject. It is available through the SCA's "Complete Anachronist" series, and it is the only time you will ever see me mention one of these publications as a primary reference, as it is thoroughly researched, annotated, footnoted, well illustrated, with a bibliography to boot (it was a Masters Tesis after all). I was very impressed, and it's the only such publication I have seen published with this much depth of research.

You would be most welcome to help with the project if you like. Any brigadine has to be tailored to the individual.

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On a more general note, to any and all -- What is everyone's opinion on the "Corrazino breast plate" now being offered by Valentine Armouries ("Transitional Armor" section)? Does it qualify as a covered breastplate, or a brigantine? The pieces look shaped in the picture, and it's made of several main pieces, not just one upper and one lower in front and back, as I'd expect of a typical 15th century piece. It's got front closure, too (makes me lean toward the brigantine interpretation), but they say the velvet is glued on, and that the rivets are decorative. Is it the buckles that hold it all together? Valentine is usually pretty good with their research, right? What's the insight here?

Well, we are located on the very border of Mass (Nashua), so it isn't like hiking up to Mt. Washington or something. We are at the Higgins monthly, and if you can come up that far, we can discuss possibilities.

As to Valentines Corrizone..... It looks like a decent copy of the item that is in the MET, which is what Rob advertises he based it off of. There are a couple of problems with the original item. The original is made up out of a bunch of mis-matched brigandine fragments that were found on Chalsis in the mid-late 19th c. The item springs straight from Bashford Deans fertile imagination of what he thought a transitional harness should look like. The word is foiund in late 14th c. Italian invantories, and it is called a corrizone brigandine - which is where we get brigandine from. There is no reason to assume that these items are anything more than early brigandines- not these split chested monstrosities that are prevelant in martial sport clubs (all based on the MET example).

We have extant late 14th - ealy 15th c. fabric covered breastplates, 3 or 4 if I remember aright, ut we have no indication of any examples of this typoe of item. As is evident from Rob's interior shots, the plates do not all overlap. This is true of the Bashford Dean Franken-harness as well - there are gaps in the defences.

So, Robs example looks like an excellent copy of what is in the MET. What exactly That is being thbe crux of the problem.

I hope this helps.

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Awwww shoot! There goes my excuse for being able to glue together my "authentic" full harness in one weekend! Sounds like Bashford Dean was the Viollet Le Duc of armor collecting; did much to stimulate further interest and reasearch, though with too free a hand by scholarly standards. So for a more accurate brigantine, I will see what I can do to help with you project, way up there in the tundra. If you've brought it to the Higgins Faire today (you probably are already on your way there, I'll be leaving soon -- ain't that bad timing of this message), I can at least get a look at it. See you there.

Many Thanks

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I used 12ga. X 1" nails in clusters of 3, but you could also use 14ga. X 3/4" nails if your going to use clusters of 3 nails.

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Yes, we have measured the thickness of a series of fragments at the Higgins - I believe 9 different fragments in all. It is tough to get an accurate reading, as all the plates ar 1. curved in surface, and 2. vary in thickness across the face of the plate. The fragmens we examined cover a span from 1435 - 1480. Interestingly enough, they we thicker than we though they would be, averaging 18 guage, and some as thick as 14 guage (these appeared to be quarter panels for a peplum - possibly for one of those covered breastplates rather than a brigandine).

We are using 22 guage spring steel, and we are tempering it in a kiln. For the examples that have lung plates, we are using 18 guage on the lung plates. Some fragments appeared to be in the 20 guage range, but we couldn't put a micrometer to them as they were attatched to a fabric backing, and we couldn't do anything that might damage the textiles.

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Thanks Much!

I'll check it out.

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If you look at the image below, you can see on the left that there is a quad-nail grouping. I have it written down somewhere which source this image came from. Might be from Die Burgunderbuete. Will post it when I find out.

http://www.wolfeargent.com/projects/brignails.jpg

Jenn

[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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Sincerely,
McIntosh

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