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Author Topic: Wood
Wolfes Company
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Member # 167

posted 08-20-2002 09:22 PM     Profile for Wolfes Company     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I frequent the Ebay auctions and ocassionally they have quarter sawn wood for sale. Matter of fact just lost out oon some quarter sawn white oak. Question is is red oak old world or new world? There seems to be a bunch of it on ebay and I certainly don't want to buy the wrong stuff.

Thanks,
Steve


Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
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posted 08-20-2002 10:09 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Red Oak is New world. In all fairness, it's tough to tell them apart unless looking very close - you occassioaly find whie quartersawn in the red bin hereabouts.

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Bob R.


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Friedrich
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posted 08-25-2002 05:47 AM     Profile for Friedrich   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Chef is correct. White oak is closer in grain and physical look to european oak. (Even if the red is a nicer colour.)

Quartersawn oak is available by certain rough board lumberyards. I have it available up here in New England in NH/ME although it's expensive at 4 to 5 a foot.

I can also get specialty pine in widths sometimes up to 18 inches. And solid ash as well to make halberd hafts, etc.


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 08-25-2002 08:24 PM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Steve, Steve, Steve...

Don't you know by now that I can get you a wood fix? Who da man for ripping you guys new Ash-poles, huh?

I asked Colonial Hardwoods months ago if they can get Q-sawn white oak & they told me they can. What did your E-bay lot go for per board foot? I'll get you the number & you can call Felix tomorrow for prices.

OK, so I couldn't get them to turn 15' tapered lance shafts, but otherwise they rock for getting unique stuff.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


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David Meyer
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Member # 245

posted 09-24-2002 11:45 AM     Profile for David Meyer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello all -

While visiting family in St. Paul, MN this last weekend, I found a hardwood dealer who has more quarter sawn white oak than one could shake a stick at. The price was about $6 per board foot. If anyone is in the area and wants more information, let me know.

Would anyone care to hypothesize as to WHY quarter sawn wood was the medieval norm (assuming it was?)? Quarter sawing seems to produce so much more waste than modern methods, though it does make for a pretty board.

Any thoughts?

David


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J.K. Vernier
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posted 09-24-2002 01:46 PM     Profile for J.K. Vernier   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Quartersawing was the norm because it is the result you get from splitting the wood radially from the log, and green oak splits readily, thus making this the most economical means of production. Quartersawn wood is also more stable in drying, that is, it is less likely to warp or cup as it seasons. Then as now, it is a higher-quality product for this reason, and the wastage in production was probably offset by the reduction of loss and extra work due to warpage.
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Seigneur de Leon
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posted 09-24-2002 09:42 PM     Profile for Seigneur de Leon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hear, hear! I sometimes lose 1/4 - 1/3 of an 8' white oak board from splitting on the edges.

And they (Colonial Hardwoods) have alder, English brown oak & English beech! You da man!

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VERITAS IN INTIMO
VIRES IN LACERTU
SIMPLICITAS IN EXPRESSO


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David Meyer
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posted 09-24-2002 11:34 PM     Profile for David Meyer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello -

Thanks for your thoughts John - this is an area that I don't understand as well as I'd like just yet. Would you go as far as to say ALL medieval wood (excepting timber used for beams/construction) was cut in this manner?

quote:

posted 09-24-2002 01:46 PM                     
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Quartersawing was the norm because it is the result you get from splitting the wood radially from the log, and green oak splits readily, thus making this the most economical means of production.

This is to say, a log is split into quarters along its long axis, and the quarters are sawed into boards, if I'm not misunderstanding you.

Does the smaller size of the quartered sections make it easier to saw the boards, or is it the aesthetics (nicer grain pattern) and the greater stability of the quarter sawed boards that makes this sawing method more attractive?

Thanks

David

P.S. - the hardwood dealer in St. Paul steered me away from a gorgeous 16" x 1" x 8' quarter sawed board (ka-ching!) for a chest, because he worried it would not be stable enough. He suggested using something less than 10" wide for improved stability.


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J.K. Vernier
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posted 09-25-2002 01:52 AM     Profile for J.K. Vernier   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As you say, the log can be split into quarters and the quarters sawn into boards, or the log can be split entirely into narrow "pie-slices", which are each finished into a board by adzing and planing. I can't say which method was typical. I certainly can't say that all wood was quartersawn. I would have to look at a lot more surviving pieces to form an opinion, although for oak in particular quartersawing is commonly evident in surviving pieces. It can be much harder to tell with other types of wood.

Quartersawing was evidently standard for the oak panels commonly used by northern Renaissance painters. The stability of quartersawn oak, seasoned for several years before the panel was painted, was the key to the long-term survival of this sort of painting. A badly-prepared panel would simply flex, crack and flake off the painting in short order. The fact that so many panels exist in good condition basically gives the lie to the notion that "they didn't understand working with dry wood" in the late middle ages, as has sometimes been claimed.

BTW, the best quality of oak boards was imported to the Netherlands from forests on the Baltic coast of Poland. The dutch called this "waagenschotte," which is the origin of the word Wainscotting.


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