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Author Topic: Worship in Arms
Josh Warren
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Member # 472

posted 05-19-2003 06:08 PM     Profile for Josh Warren     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I am having difficulty understanding this passage from Johan Hyll's 1434 work, "Traytese of the Poyntes of Worship in Armes":

"A payre of sheen of red Lether thynne laced & fretted underneth wt whippecorde & persed, And above withinne Lyned wt Lynnen cloth three fyngers in brede double & byesse from the too an yncle above ye wriste. And so behinde at ye hele from the Soole halfe a quarter of a yearde uppe this is to fasten wele to his Sabatons And the same Sabatons fastened under ye soole of ye fete in 2 places"

It sounds as though Mr. Hyll is describing wrapping the foot in some fashion before the shoe and sabaton is donned. Am I misunderstanding this? Can anyone clarify this for me?

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Non Concedo


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 05-20-2003 11:17 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A payre of sheen of red Lether

Wear shoes of "red" leather. Red means the type & tanning process the leather went through, not the color. "White" leather was thin goat or deer, I think red was pig or calf.

thynne laced & fretted underneth wt whippecorde & persed,

the shoes should be laced and have knotted cords under the soles and above (provides traction)

withinne Lyned wt Lynnen cloth three fyngers in brede double & byesse from the too an yncle above ye wriste.

Now it gets interesting: Line the shoes with linen strips 3 fingers wide, doubled and passing(?) from the toes and ankle to abovea the joint (Wrist=joint?)

And so behinde at ye hele from the Soole halfe a quarter of a yearde uppe this is to fasten wele to his Sabatons And the same Sabatons fastened under ye soole of ye fete in 2 places

Behind at the heel from the sole to half a quarter yard (4-1/2"?) up to where it attaches to the sabatons. (sounds like a slip of linen either inside or outside the shoe attaches to the back of the sabatons - weird) Fasten the sabatons under the sole in 2 places.

Maybe this bit of linen does run under the sole of the sabaton from the back of the heel and 4 inches or so up towards the ball of the foot - maybe attached there in 2 places. In this case it would act like a heel-cup or partial sole.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


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Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 05-20-2003 11:34 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I wonder if "withinne Lyned wt Lynnen cloth three fyngers in brede double & byesse from the too an yncle above ye wriste" means folded.

Jenn

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ad finem fidelis


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Woodcrafter
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posted 05-20-2003 09:18 PM     Profile for Woodcrafter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
My take for what it is worth;

"A payre of sheen of red Lether thynne laced & fretted underneth wt whippecorde & persed,
A pair of top leather (ie not split) shoes thinly laced (not thick laces) and knotted underneath with whipcord and pierced

And above withinne Lyned wt Lynnen cloth three fyngers in brede double and byesse from the too an yncle above ye wriste.
And above (the outside bottom) within (the shoe) lined with linen cloth three fingers in breadth, doubled (in thickness) and (cut on the) bias from the toe to the knuckle of the ankle.

And so behinde at ye hele from the Soole halfe a quarter of a yearde uppe this is to fasten wele to his Sabatons And the same Sabatons fastened under ye soole of ye fete in 2 places"
And also a strip from beneath the heel (sole) that runs up to fasten to the sabatons. And the sabatons have two strips, I assume linen, running under the foot to hold them on.

Translated that way, it gives me a picture of a shoe with thin laces that will not dig into the foot from the sabaton rubbing ontop of them. The bottom of the shoe has knotted cords to aid in traction. Inside the shoe is two layers of linen to act as padding for the foot against the knots of the cords on the bottom of the shoe. This padding comes all the way up to the knuckle of the ankle to pad against the rubbing action of the sabaton. A final strip of cloth comes from the back of the shoe and attaches to the sabaton so that the sabaton does not come off. Likewise the sabaton has two strips of linen running underneath the shoe to help hold it on.

My sabatons have two thick leather straps running under the foot for traction. They buckle on the outsides at the ankle. They do flop about some. Tying them to the shoe would reduce this.

[ 05-20-2003: Message edited by: Woodcrafter ]

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Woodcrafter
14th c. Woodworking


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Jeff Johnson
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posted 05-21-2003 09:16 AM     Profile for Jeff Johnson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
For Comparison - extracts from "How a man schall be armyd at his ese when he schal fighte on foote"

Also a payre of shone of thikke cordwene and they muste be frette with smal whipcorde thre knottis up on a corde and thre coordis muste be faste sowid un to the hele of the shoo and fyne cordis in the mydill of the soole of the same shoo and that there be between the frettis of the heele and the frettis of the myddill of the shoo the space of thre fyngris.

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Geoffrey Bourrette
Man At Arms


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