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Author
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Topic: Religous thing for my camp
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Rod Walker
Member
Member # 776
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posted 10-24-2006 05:55 PM
    
I have seen sections of artwork that apparently belong to fold out altars. Where would these have been used? In camp? Taken from house/castle to house/castle as the lord travelled?This is a repro to give an idea of what I am talking about. Borrowed from [URL=http://bractea.freha.pl/ ]HERE[/URL]   I would like to make one to have in my camp. So as to make my peace with God before entering the lists. [ 10-26-2006: Message edited by: Rod Walker ] -------------------- Cheers Rod
www.jousting.com.au
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Angelique
Member
Member # 404
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posted 10-25-2006 01:04 PM
Cool idea, but would not a Prie Dieu serve the same purpose and perhaps have been more common? I say more common as in a knight traveling with his immediate household as opposed to a larger group traveling with their own clergy?I'm making no judgements, just wondering. -------------------- Dahlin', this can't be real emergency, I only brought one bottle of bourbon and one bottle of Tabasco...
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 10-25-2006 03:16 PM
I think Angelique has the right of it. A portable altar is a travelling item with a great lords household who has a clergyman travelling with him. If you had this, you had the altarcloth and the vestements for the clergymen attending it along with you as well. For a citation regarding my opinion, please see John Howards daily parcel account, specifically covering the 1483 Scottish expedition - he had one, the clerical vestements, and the other objects and vessels associated with a priest giving the sacrement of the mass as well. Smaller devotional pictures and statues existed, and are more likely for the purpose you seek Rod. -------------------- Bob R.
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damien
Member
Member # 742
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posted 10-26-2006 04:44 PM
I believe the item illustrated is technically a tabernacle, which can be used as an aid to personal devotions or on the altar during mass. Very briefly (from memory) a tabernacle is a display container for a 3-d object such as a statue etc, or a repository for storing the Eucharist. There is a cool tabernacle box in the British museum which looks like an elongated version of the dartboard boxes you see in 70’s bars! If the artwork is a flat or carved relief image in more than one panel it is either a diptych, (2 panel), triptych (3 panels) or a polyptych (more than 3). It seems that the triptych was the most common form of the smaller scale portable items as they are a bit more stable when free standing and usually take the form of a large central panel with two smaller hinged wings half the size of the main panel.
Altarpiece generally refers to much larger constructions which were erected behind the altar of a church. These could feature panel painting, relief or round figures and could be absolutely enormous, though as I mentioned smaller portable triptych, tabernacles etc could also be used especially if the mass was not being celebrate in a church.The portable altars are another deal again. The ones I have seen are generally a low rectangular box about 30-50 cm long and consist of a central panel in polished stone
( alabaster, agate, marble etc) surrounded by a silver or gilt border which usually features stamped or repousse decoration and sometimes enamel insets or even applied demi-ronde figures ( little saint dudes). All the examples I can think of seem to be Romanesque in style and date from the 11th- 13th centuries, but I think we can assume that they remained in use ( some until comparatively recently) The stone central panel on the altar I suspect would have contained or covered the relics of a saint a tradition which I believe is still followed in the Catholic Church. I suspect that the main reason that they were licensed is that they are consecrated and contain relics.
We are in the process of constructing a triptych, polytych and tabernacle to use in our encampment. When we can we recreate the short form of the Latin mass in our encampment at the start of the day before a tournament and last time we even had a member of the public giving responses in Latin and cueing for commu
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Rod Walker
Member
Member # 776
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posted 10-26-2006 05:34 PM
Thanks everyone. I have changed the title of this thread as it may have been causing confusion (my fault).So I would be ok using something like this in my camp setup? We are late 15th C knights at tournament. I am reasonbly wealthy and have an extensive household so am presenting a higher class impression.
I have always felt that the religous aspect of what they did is under represented. I am Catholic so do not feel hypocritical when praying at an event or before a tournament. There has been many a time when I have been caught praying inside my helm as they hand me the lance. How are you Damien? -------------------- Cheers Rod
www.jousting.com.au
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damien
Member
Member # 742
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posted 10-26-2006 09:56 PM
hi brent
One of our members portrays a rather militant late C14th French Bishop, which is rather fitting as he is an ex- regular army officer and also a Eucharistic minister. We use the Tridentine form of service specified for the distribution of the pre-consecrated Eucharist (here is one we prepared earlier!) as it gets around any objections of having someone who is not ordained performing a consecration. As it is the service still takes about 20 mins which is pushing it at a re enactment event. Whilst we realise that the Council of Trent was not held until the 16th century the main reforms of the Mass it introduced were to bring everyone into line with the ‘Roman’ liturgical tradition. It did not ( at least as far as I can tell) introduce much that was new it just codified ‘what must be done’, ‘how it is to be done’ and ‘what you are not allowed to do anymore’. I suspect that if your liturgy was pretty much in line with the 'Roman" traadition the Tridentine reforms made very little difference to the words and of most rituals.
We have made it a bit public friendly (read heretical) by introducing some sections in the vernacular and them repeating them in Latin. Whilst this is not accurate it does mean that the public are not alienated and hang around (a similar conclusion was reached by Vatican II in the mid 60’s!). We have found that it has been a very successful part of our encampment impression, though only half of the group participates in it (others absent themselves on the excuse of theological grounds and I suspect some don’t participate on the grounds this living history stuff is just too hard for them and they feel the need to make a political statement). I realise that this may be an unpopular view with some but I simply cannot see how one can depict medieval Europeans, even in the atypical scenario of a tournament encampment, without reference to their spirituality. Personally I find it is the only time I have to get my thoughts together and prepare for the day ahead. I also sometimes kneel in prayer before a tournament partly as an outward example of medieval piety and partly as a chance for me to focus and clear my head. As an aside the Abbey Church of St Michael which is on the grounds of where we hold our major tournament was so impressed with our bishop (they haven’t met him socially) that they have allowed him to conduct prayers as part of knighting ceremony, which from memory was based on Durand’s Pontifical, inside the church. This is a great venue for us as it houses the largest collection of medieval and renaissance stained glass and religious art in the southern hemisphere. If any of what I have mentioned above is any use I can email you a copy of what we have put together. For the record I was born into an Irish catholic family, educated by Franciscans, did a couple of subjects of theology at uni and can now only be described as some sort ‘non-specific Theist’ but with a strange fascination for religious art, graven images and the ritual trappings of that “good ole time religion”
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Rod Walker
Member
Member # 776
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posted 10-27-2006 06:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by damien:
[If any of what I have mentioned above is any use I can email you a copy of what we have put together.
Yes please  -------------------- Cheers Rod
www.jousting.com.au
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