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Author
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Topic: Cloaks - 1391
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Lyndsey Brown
Member
Member # 669
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posted 01-27-2005 01:23 PM
   
As mentioned elsewhere, L'Emprise de l'Escu Gules is trying to get our collective act together. Part of that is getting our kits complete and accurate for 1391. (Shucks...have to make new clothes!) We also are setting up a photoshoot of a winter campaign to produce good pictures for the Web site. Which has led us to a rather heated discussion on cloaks.Were cloaks worn in the late 14th C as an outer garment designed for warmth? Arguments on this end are running from "outerwear cloaks are an SCA interpretation" to "cloaks were ecclesiastical only" and "if you were cold you wrapped up in your bedroll." We've been poking around on the Web to see what those of you who sell to the reenactment community have out there. We've found a couple of examples that say they are period but don't include the proof. Others of you whom we trust impecably (grin) don't offer a cloak which makes us think that maybe they aren't documentable. I am dedicating part of my weekend to looking at primary sources. Thought I'd ask first to see if anyone else had dedicated time to this particular thought. We need to make five to ten of us look good in zero degree weather and 18 inches of snow. Any suggestions of how to survive this current madness very gladly received. Cheers! -------------------- Lyndsey
Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged
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Charlotte
Member
Member # 620
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posted 01-27-2005 02:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lyndsey Brown:
 Excellent! Thank you.
Lyndsey, Are you on the yahoo group, aotc? It's a list dedicated to the time period of the gothic gown, and while a lot of the discussion is about clothing, it is non-clothing specific. The core group of posters are quite knowledgable people, and there's a decent mix of SCA and LH denizens. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aotc We're always looking for more, knowlegeable, authenticity minded folks.
Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged
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Charlotte
Member
Member # 620
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posted 01-27-2005 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lyndsey Brown:
We need to make five to ten of us look good in zero degree weather and 18 inches of snow. Any suggestions of how to survive this current madness very gladly received. Cheers!
My suggestion is many layers of wool clothing, preferably fur-lined, if you can find the fur. There's loads of evidence for fur lined clothing, and for the "layered look". I've also always disliked cloaks for the simple reason that they're a pain in the neck to use. If you're trying to actually do anything, the cloak falls open, and now you're cold again. Warm dresses and gowns seem to me to be the way to go. I'd also recommend a nice fur lined hood. Fashion in the Age of the Black prince talks about fur lined hoods, and the different furs that were allocated to different members of the royal household. Everybody from the Queen to the Royal Hatter (I think?) had a fur lining in their hood. This is a great solution if you can find a little bit of fur, or don't want to line a whole dress. As a side note, I made a fur lined dress, and didn't line the sleeves. If you're going to be in below zero weather, DEFINITELY line the sleeves! Also, one fur lined dress all by itself won't cut it (at least squirrel fur, that is). Wear it over another heavy wool dress. Wear it with a toasty warm hood too, and that helps. Make your sleeves long enough to turn the cuffs over your hands - fur lining around cold fingers is WONDERFUL!
Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged
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Jancemeijer von Magnus
Member
Member # 695
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posted 01-29-2005 05:37 PM
I can't speak on anything outside 15th century without confidence; but from what I have been lead to believe, the cloak was an essential part of the camp-livers' clothing. In most cases, it WAS the bed-roll!  The style of the cut and the material is what sepperates a historic recreation piece from the "idolized" forms used by other "medieval-themed organizations" The above post by Charlotte (One of my favorite names, by the way) is very interesting and should help you delve into your centurys' make and model. Just remember to watch the milage and keep a spare handy!  I don't know about your century, but what of "watch coats"? Sometimes that is also correct for worse weather (rain snow).
EDIT: SOURCES: From the website of the Company of Saynt George:
Cloak (4)
Not essential, but wonderful for cold weather and to sleep in. Must be of woollen cloth cut as full as possible. (4) Cloaks
Illustrations of foul weather clothing are not particularly common but those there are frequently show cloaks being worn by all classes for travelling, riding or about town in rain or snow. Almost the first thing this company member made for himself was a thick, very full, woollen cloak and it has seen good service in rain and snow and as a bed for 10 long years. However, experience has shown that you cannot comfortably push a cannon up a muddy road while wearing a cloak - one risks frequent and quite alarming entanglements and - at worst - strangulation
(2) Gowns
What we have come to call "watch coats" or watching coats because we know that winter and watching clothes were issued at times to retainers - were extremely common civilian cold weather and formal garments. They ranged from simple voluminous smocks, sometimes hooded, to practical 3/4 length woollen "over coats" cut full enough to be pulled into ample pleats when secured by a waist belt. Sometimes they were made ankle length, with elegant sewn-in pleats and worn by the most fashionable of the court. Occasionally the Co. of St. George's Lord has issued various members with cheap "gowns" to keep them warm on long winter guard duty. These are invariable some shade of red or red brown.(back)
Now, whether or not a source on a website with 900 members world-wide is deemed reliable is up to the individual. I personally think these folks have thier act together and I trust everything they publish.
In service, [ 01-30-2005: Message edited by: Jancemeijer von Magnus Fülkim ] -------------------- ~ Jason Banditt Adams
Illustrator for the gaming industry
www.Rogue-Artist.com "Jancemeijer von Magnus"
Organization head, "Magnus Kompanie"
Aufgebot Hessen Kassel 1471-1480
www.GothicGermany.org
Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged
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Lyndsey Brown
Member
Member # 669
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posted 02-03-2005 08:11 AM
Primary sources are the goal. I'm thinking written sources are my next goal. ( A baggage list would be awesome.) We know the cloak in general can be documented to the time period. Pictoral and dig evidence show that. The question is more one of use, geography, timing, and status. Would a foot soldier, or a squire, or a knight, use a specific garmet, a cloak, designed for warmth, or would layering and wrapping in your bedroll if it's really that cold be more the norm? I think we've hammered it out enough for folks to make decisions that won't be inaccurate, and we'll get even more precise as budgets allow. (Can't swing that much fur right now! ) Thanks, everyone, for the input.-------------------- Lyndsey
Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged
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