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Author Topic: Tablet Weaving
Phillipe de Pamiers
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posted 08-28-2001 09:45 AM     Profile for Phillipe de Pamiers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I purchased some of the bone tablets from Historic at Pennsic this year. I am new to the craft and started reading a few how to articles and books. The articles discuss numbered tablets and lettered holes on them.
My assumption is that this is to make pattern sharing easier and to assist the new comer in learning the skill. I understand that very few actual tablets remain.

Were there markings on tablets in the past, or is this a recent phenomenon?

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Phillipe de Pamiers


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AnnaRidley
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posted 08-28-2001 02:26 PM     Profile for AnnaRidley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I do not know of any markings such as are used in modern discussions of tabletweaving on historical tablets. For me my tablets are not marked persay, I reference the numbers and letters more as a communication tool when trying to describe a pattern to others or myself.

One thing to keep in mind is that most of the patterns you will find in modern books on tablet weaving are what are called threaded in patterns - where each hole in each card is assigned a specific color of string and the whole pack is turned forwards or backwards together. I know of no medieval examples of this method of tablet weaving. It is mauch more common to find tablet weaving as a background for brocade, simple stripe patterns, and two-color double face patterns. When one is warping for these sorts of patterns there is not nearly so much need to label each hole as all of the tablets get the same threads (look for instructions on continious warping).

Mitake.


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Phillipe de Pamiers
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posted 08-29-2001 12:21 PM     Profile for Phillipe de Pamiers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I was looking at the Oseberg ship finds and the cards show no evidence of markings for the purpose of distinction.

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Phillipe de Pamiers


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Gina
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posted 11-20-2001 04:41 PM     Profile for Gina   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Of extant tablets which I know of, none have any markings - this is a modern idea, to aid in teaching. Historic tablets were much smaller than modern ones too.
The best book for tablet weaving (including lists of the earliest finds) is Peter Collingwood's Techniques of Tablet Weaving, and, for brocaded patterns, Nancy Spies's Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance.
Details of both of these, as well as bibliographies can be found at the Tablet Weavers International website - www.weavershand.com, and info about 15th century tablet weaving, including pictures of a reconstructed loom at www.soper-lane.co.uk

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Gina-b Silkwork & Passementerie
Tak v Bowes Departed
Soper Lane


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Fire Stryker
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posted 11-20-2001 07:39 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Gina, welcome!

Just a quick note: the URL for the weavers hand has an extra comma at the end. Remove the comma and the link is golden.

Thanks for posting them Gina, I have taken a look and the sites are really nice!

Jenn


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Brenna
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posted 11-21-2001 03:43 PM     Profile for Brenna   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello Gina,

Thank you for the Tablet Weaving link. After looking at Nancy Spies work in particular, I am beginning to wonder if some of the magnificent "strap" horse barding from the 16th century might not be tablet woven instead of cut brocade as I had previously thought.

Thank you for setting me on a new research tangent. I am not certain if there are any extant examples of strap style barding, though I had "heard" tablet woven straps were sometimes used in horse harness or tack but I have yet to find proof of that as well.

Thanks again,
Brenna

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Where in this world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, beauty without vanity? Here, where grace is laced with muscle, and strength by gentleness confined. He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity. There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent; there is nothing so quick, nothing so patient. England's past has been borne on his back. All our history is his industry: we are his heirs, he is our inheritance. Ladies and gentlemen: The Horse! - Robert Duncan's "Tribute to the Horse"


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Gina
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posted 11-24-2001 06:44 AM     Profile for Gina   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi!
I don't know alot about tablet weaving in the 16th century, but I too am trying to find evidence of it having been used in horse harness (in the 15th). I know that modern tablet weavers do make reins and other harness, and that tablet weaving is still used for camel girths. If its particularly brocaded straps you are thinking about, the tablet woven bands are much stronger than a loom piece of cloth which would (I assume) need to be strengthened with leather. To be fair, what I know about horses is alo very limited, (what is barding?)so that could be a very wrong assumption.


And sorry for the typo on the link!

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Gina-b Silkwork & Passementerie
Tak v Bowes Departed
Soper Lane


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Fire Stryker
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posted 11-26-2001 07:14 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Slightly OT:

I would look under the ordinances for the associated livery companies in the country/city that you are trying to associate with the tablet weaving of tack. It may not have been allowed.

I am reading the History of the Worshipful Company of Saddlers of London and so far I have not come up with any associations to any cloth related livery companies or mentions in the accounts. Doesn't mean that there wasn't any, just that I haven't found anything yet.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]


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Brenna
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posted 11-26-2001 02:45 PM     Profile for Brenna   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
QUOTE]If its particularly brocaded straps you are thinking about, the tablet woven bands are much stronger than a loom piece of cloth which would (I assume) need to be strengthened with leather. To be fair, what I know about horses is alo very limited, (what is barding?)so that could be a very wrong assumption. [/QUOTE]

Barding, bards, caparisons are all terms associated with the decorative harness and "covers" used on horses in a variety of periods. There is often a bit of discussion concerning "correct" terminology of the specific parts and their use but generally speaking, you can apply the above.

Since I have very limited knowledge of tablet weaving but some decent knowledge of loomed brocades and damasks, I am very much inclined to agree with you about the strength issue. Stress points in a caparison are pretty specific however, so overcoming that while still making a pretty picture would not be impossible. The particular "strap" barding example I am thinking of is actually 16th century. I will have to hunt up a copy of the picture on line, I have it in a book at home.

quote:
I am reading the History of the Worshipful Company of Saddlers of London and so far I have not come up with any associations to any cloth related livery companies or mentions in the accounts. Doesn't mean that there wasn't any, just that I haven't found anything yet.

I'm not particularly surprised in that respect. What barding patterns and instructions I have seen extant were recorded in tailor's books. Juan de Alcega's book in particular contains patterns and instructions for a complete tournament style barding made of silk. It might be that the saddlers and livery companies had little to do with the production of barding since it seems to fall more in the textile end of things. Also, since it tended to be personalized in many cases and made specifically for one individual, perhaps ordnances are not the right place to begin. Inventories might be a solid starting point.

Thanks for the thoughts,
Brenna

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Where in this world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, beauty without vanity? Here, where grace is laced with muscle, and strength by gentleness confined. He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity. There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent; there is nothing so quick, nothing so patient. England's past has been borne on his back. All our history is his industry: we are his heirs, he is our inheritance. Ladies and gentlemen: The Horse! - Robert Duncan's "Tribute to the Horse"


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Gina
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posted 11-29-2001 04:03 AM     Profile for Gina   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Barding, bards, caparisons are all terms associated with the decorative harness and "covers" used on horses in a variety of periods. There is often a bit of discussion concerning "correct" terminology of the specific parts and their use but generally speaking, you can apply the above.

Thanks! Is this an old term do you know?

Gina

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Gina-b Silkwork & Passementerie
Tak v Bowes Departed
Soper Lane


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Fire Stryker
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posted 11-29-2001 07:25 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Barding, at least as I understand it, refers to the decorative harness such as the breast collar. The term comes from the 15th c. French word barde.

Caparison is the decorative covering worn by horses during tournaments (with or without heraldic markings) or as a means of displaying ones arms on the field of combat. Again a MF word caparaçon fr. OSp caparazón.

As Brenna says, getting everyone to use the "correct" terminology can be the topic of great debate.


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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-26-2002 02:36 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Still looking for 15th c references, but have found a couple of articles that might bear looking into from: www.weavershand.com

Though these items are a bit out of scope it is interesting to see it in later time periods.

Petrasch, Ernst, Reinhard Sänger, Eva Zimmerman, and Hans Georg Majer. Die Karlsruher Türkenbeute. Munich: Hirmer Verlag, 1991. An account with photos on pp. 135-138 of several seventeenth-century Turkish brocaded tabletwoven bands made into saddle girths for horses.

The other, couldn't find a date reference as far as when this tradition started, but it is still interesting non-the-less.

Sjöberg-Pietarinen, Solveig. Åboreins and rope-making. Åbo, Finland: n.p., n.d. A brief report on the folk art use of tabletwoven bands as horse reins made as wedding gifts in Finland.

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ad finem fidelis


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