I have very nice patterns for 12th century shirt, chausses and braies through the aid of Andy Goddard of the English group Circa 1265. Now what I need is a good, dependable source for lightweight linen and wool. This way, I can have a better looking (and better feeling), more accurate kit that what muslin would provide.

Oh, BTW...thanks for inviting me to the Firestryker Forum.

Robert Coleman, Jr.

In answer to your question, it seems that Craig Nadler (who should show up on this forum at some point) purchased linen through a website not too long ago and paid a very reasonable price- I think it was under $4 per yard for medium weight. That's a great price, and he said the linen was OK, not damaged or misrepresented. If you lived closer I'd be happy to turn you on to my source, but they're in LA and don't do mail order.

For wool I'd try Timeless Textiles <http://www.timelesstextiles.com/index.html> Mary Harkless is the ownder, and you may have seen her booth at Pennsic. I buy a good deal of fabric from her both at Pennsic and via the mail. Her prices are reasonable, but her service varies from exemplary to erratic. I just checked and her site is HUGE, maybe they've worked the bugs out of their customer service.

If you're doing Crusades stuff, I think you should be able to use cotton- what does Andy say about that?

I think the place that hauptfrau is referring to might be (URL Deleted). I will have to go check the book marks on the other computer.

You could probably get the same effect by cutting a rectangle of cloth diagonally to produce 2 subtle trapezoids; stitch the straight side of the trap to the side of the middle piece and the effect would be virtually the same without cutting a curve and wasting fabric.

The booklet "Cut My Cote" is a wonderful (and at $8, very affordable) overview of rectangular construction theories and applications through time and region.

Here are two 100% Linens fabrics that are 59" wide and natural (undyed and unbleached) that I think should work for shirts and braies.

IL-019-000, Weight: 5.5 oz/yd $5.51 per yard (was around $4 per yard)

1C64, Weight: 5.2 oz/yd $5.14 per yard

The IL-019-000 is a much lighter shade then the 1C64, I would say it's an off white. Also the 1C64 has a bit more/larger slubs then the IL-019-000. Please keep in mind that you can find much finer and better quality linen fabrics but these should be ok for what you want. The linen that hauptfrau used for the shirt that I bought from her is whiter, softer, and a better quality then either of the two listed above.

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Craig Nadler
cwn@nh.ultranet.com http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~cwn/armour.shtml

Thanks for all the input, folks. Primarily why I'd like linen is because I understand it lasts a lot longer than cotton. While I can get away with muslin, gauze and other cotton fabrics, I'd love to have linen for durability.

To Gwen:

Andy suggests that I could get away with muslin as well, but he points out that linen gets as soft as cotton and lasts years longer. AND, if I don't have to replace pieces of kit so often, so much the better...

Another good source for braies and chausses construction is an Australian site for a group called Levantia. I may have to try his patterns out to see how they work. Andy's braies pattern is very fabric-hungry!

It's pretty clear that the originals he is copying are HUGE, and probably require every bit of that much fabric to look the way they do.

Query- if you are doing a Crusader impression, why are you using an Eastern European (Czeck, Polish) source for your pattern? Assuming you are a European gone on Crudade, wouldn't you be wearing the underwear from your home country? European (English, Continental) braies are not nearly as baggy as those depicted in the Mac. Bible. Just a thought.

Actually, as I understand it the Mac bible is a Circa 1250 French document that came into the hands of Bishop Maciejowski, and was sent as a gift to the Ottoman Turkish Sultan Mehmet...whatever. But it's origins are from France.

I'm trying to get a copy of it.

Robert Coleman, Jr.

Those who turn their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

You should find a number of copies for sale if you do a book search at www.bookfinder.com. I would say that around $75 for a copy in VG condition is a fair price though from time to time you can find some real bargains too.

After I made that post Jeff and I were discussing the Mac Bible and wondering what it was (Polish, Czech, etc.). It's not my area of expertise and while I see it alot in my books and am familiar with the content, I don't know much about the book itself. I thought it originated in one of the Eastern Bloc or Slovak countries.

So it's French, eh? Wild stuff. I've never seen those exact sort of underwear in any other source, and they sure don't look like the ones depicted on secular jewelry!

Craig, have you ever seen a copy of it for less than $75? Maybe as a coloring book or something? I'd love to have at least some of it, but $75 is a bit steep for a supplemental reference.

The only copy of the Maciejowski Bible Bookfinder lists is $4,500 !!!

I just emailed the Pierpont Morgan Library to see what they can tell me about reprints of the plates.

This searches all the major and not so major book search engines. Just be sure to click the used book link.

Jenn

There was one copy listed for sale in VG condition for $60.