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Author Topic: 14th C English Impression
D.W. Peters
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Member # 330

posted 05-20-2003 12:12 AM     Profile for D.W. Peters     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Here is what I have so far:

Name: William Avery of Woodstock
Birthdate: 1369 ("currently" 1403)
Birthplace: Oxfordshire, England

Family Background: mother is a Danish born artisan in the court of Joan of Kent and father a retired soldier of noble English decent.

What is currently happening: After spending the majority of my youth in University I am now traveling to participate in various jousts to learn what school could not teach.
-------------------------------------------------------

Any advice or suggestions as how to flesh this out a bit more?


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Karen Larsdatter
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posted 05-20-2003 03:58 PM     Profile for Karen Larsdatter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Read Singman's Daily Life in Chaucer's England if you haven't already, and the Paston letters too. Your "currently" is roughly between the two, but it will give at least a view of the England of your childhood, and a primary source on daily life in England (though much of the action would have been beyond your lifetime).

I'd also look for Cobban's English University Life in the Middle Ages and Rashdall's Universities of Europe in the Middle Ages (volume III is specifically on life at English universities). It strikes me that a person who was on the career track to becoming a tournament knight would probably not have had a university education, but I may be incorrect on that assumption. Training in terms of horsemanship and other skills that would be later required in adult life would have been more useful; he could obtain such an education as a page and/or squire. (Much in the same way as a person destined for a trade would have been an apprentice to a master craftsman in that trade, rather than having studied it at a university.)

I would recommend focusing on the area(s) that interest you most. Are you interested in being an early 15th century jouster? If so, what training would they have had? What skills would they have learned? What sort of clothing, armor, accoutrements, etc. would you have had? Some potentially useful mostly-primary sources for you: Muhlberger's Jousts & Tournaments: Charny and Chivalric Sports in 14th Century France, Lull's Book of Knighthood and Chivalry. The Knighthood, Chivalry, & Tournaments Resource Library may also have some useful information for you.

Karen

[ 05-20-2003: Message edited by: Karen Larsdatter ]


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D.W. Peters
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posted 05-20-2003 05:15 PM     Profile for D.W. Peters     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Karen,

Thanks for the input. A few of the books I have read and I will definately look into the others as well.

One point you make is that University and Jousting may not be a good fit...

The impression that I am after is one of noble birth/upbringing in shich I assume education would play a part, but as of yet I have not had a chance to read much into the early Universities, something I plan to rectify with abe.com this evening .

Something else that I just thought of is that for ease I am planning this impression around my actual life making it easier to remember which brings up a question I have not been able to find in my research:

How often did familys move about? Did they follow the court of whatever noble the belonged to, or predominately stay in one location?

Thanks again for your time and suggestions I will look into the books mentioned.


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Karen Larsdatter
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posted 05-20-2003 05:51 PM     Profile for Karen Larsdatter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
The impression that I am after is one of noble birth/upbringing in shich I assume education would play a part, but as of yet I have not had a chance to read much into the early Universities, something I plan to rectify with abe.com this evening .

Education would play a part in the upbringing of the sort of person you intend to portray, but it would have likely been a far different form of education than what we today consider "formal" education.

Assuming you are going for more of the "jousting knight" impression, you would have been sent off to another knight's or nobleman's household at a fairly young age, served as a page in his household until such time as you could become a squire, then served as a squire until such time as you would become a knight. During your years as a page, you would have learned etiquette (see Furnivall's Babees' Book for information and primary sources) while serving the household; as you grew up, you would have learned elements of horsemanship and the fundamentals of jousting, as well as whatever other skills your master thought you ought to pursue (falconry, literacy, etc.)

quote:
How often did familys move about? Did they follow the court of whatever noble the belonged to, or predominately stay in one location?

Again, this is another of the questions that varies depending on the situation of the families in question. A serf's family might never move, for example. But in your case, I would say that your own family's travels would not affect you much (as you would not have seen them frequently), but you probably would have accompanied your master on his travels -- again, Charny and Lull will be good resources on this, and the aforementioned chronique.com -- assuming that your master was an English knight, you might have accompanied him to tournaments throughout England and on the Continent (France most likely), where you would basically be acting as his servant (assuming your master cared enough about you to keep you on the straight & narrow!)

Karen


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Alan F
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posted 05-20-2003 07:51 PM     Profile for Alan F   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just to go over something that Karen said, a noble that took part in Jousting (or as it was more commonly known, 'Tilting') most certainly would not have been at University, unless he was contemplating becoming a priest. That was what Universities existed for - to train the future priests of the Catholic Church. The majority of attendees would have been low rank nobility, as well as a few from Merchant and Serf backgrounds, but high-ranking nobility would have avoided it like the plague - no pun intended!
I'm assuming that who you are trying to portray is someone of High-Rank, as the idea of a Danish noblewoman marrying someone of low noble birth would be out of the question. Noble Houses only permitted such marriages as and when they were convenient. Mostly it was the Royal Houses who married abroad, as this was used as a way of securing alliances. As to you father marryin an artisan, again this would be doubtful - no soldier of rank would marry into what could be perceived as trade.
If you want to look further into the part that Universities played in Medieval life, I suggest you try looking at Cambridge and Oxford Universities. This was their role, and why they were founded. They tend to be quite helpful on this subject, so if you contact them, they may be able to help you.

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D.W. Peters
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posted 05-20-2003 07:55 PM     Profile for D.W. Peters     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A little more about the marriage part...

My mother is an artisan in (or attached with, whatever is the proper terminology) a noble household while my father is retired from said nobles military. Would that be more correct?


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Strongbow
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posted 05-20-2003 11:19 PM     Profile for Strongbow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Is the word your looking for "courtesan?"

Just be sure to avoid its later and more well-used meaning.

Strongbow


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Alan F
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posted 05-21-2003 08:20 AM     Profile for Alan F   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The only way it was possible to 'retire' was through death or severe injury, such as the loss of a limb. A knight was pledged to the King to fight until death, regardless of age. While he was also pledged to fight for his liege Lord, he would again never actually retire, as to no longer be able to take part in the campaigns of his lord would mean the end of his life.

A woman from a noble household wouldn't have any type of employment - such a thing was beneath them. An artisan of this period usually implies skilled labour, so to someone from a noble household this wouldn't apply.

To represent a knight who regularly Jousts you would have to portray a nobleman, as those from the lower classes wre usually barred from fighting - usually in case they won!


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Rodric
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posted 05-23-2003 09:47 PM     Profile for Rodric   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
One important aspect of your portrayal, can you actually ride and joust?

Cheers

Rod http://blakpryns.tripod.com/


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D.W. Peters
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posted 05-23-2003 10:04 PM     Profile for D.W. Peters     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, I can ride, but I have not jousted in (mumble mumble) years and when I did it was just a few friends doing what we could to not kill the others, but still knock someone of the horses...

[ 06-13-2003: Message edited by: D.W. Peters ]


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