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Author Topic: No saddles?
lionsquire
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posted 02-14-2006 09:38 AM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi All,
In preparation of doing a “Maying” event this spring, my wife was doing a little research into period pleasure riding tack and trappings. On a close investigation of many of the illuminations showing non-military riders in Les Tres Riches, it seems that they have very simple/minimal saddles (no pommels or cantles) or possibly only a saddle pad. Two of the calendar pages stick out:
http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/may.jpg

The guy in the very front in blue seems to only have a blanket and no discernable cantle. The other interesting figure is the third lady (towards the back) in green and all there seems to be under her, well, butt is a tiny pad in red.
The same thing seems to be true in the August panel:
http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/august.jpg

The lady in blue on the left has a red pad the maybe has the littlest hint of a cantle, or possibly just a very squishy pad. The other interesting thing is the couple on the right riding double. Given both his forward position and her sitting behind sidesaddle, it would seem to be an impossible arrangement if the saddle had any kind on pommel or cantle. Now, as a contrast, here is a detail from a military scene:
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/DB-f95r-d2l.jpg

Clearly, the artist understood what a war saddle looks like with very detailed cantles, pommel plates and so forth. So, any thoughts on the theory that for pleasure riding they may not have used saddles at all? Possibly something similar to a modern bareback pad with irons? Any comments would be appreciated.


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Fire Stryker
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posted 02-14-2006 09:58 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hi Micah,

Almost everything I reference below is turn of the 15th c to early 16th c. Though some of the horn and bone saddles have been referenced as being late 14th c.

The Duc de Berry "Tres heures" are very difficult to see anything definitive regarding the saddles.

In the Howard Household books (1460s -1480s), there is at least one entry that I've found that clearly states "hunting sadyll", however it does not picture it. In another entry a warre sadyll is mentioned. So right there, at least in England you have mention of two types.

Duarte (1438) has an entire section related to hunting and he talks about the saddle and remaining 'firm in the stirrups'. He never gave the impression of a saddle pad with irons. He tells the reader that they should be able to ride in all types of saddles and that the saddle should fit the task at hand as should the riding style. He doesn't mention war (it might be that this is the section he never got to complete before his death). I believe he mentions that a rider should be able to ride bareback or without stirrups.

In Gaston Phébus "Le Livre de Chasse" (Paris XVxe). The saddles very clearly have cantles much like the war saddle.
http://classes.bnf.fr/phebus/livre/icono/icono.htm

German riding saddles and bone saddles have cantles and pommels but are much flatter than the war saddle with it's "lobed" wrap-around cantle.

So, it's seems that it is highly speculative in regard to just saddle/bareback pads with just stirrups. I believe some of the Eastern cultures did it, but don't recall if they had stirrups or just the pad.

In a civic jousting image from Germany, the participants are riding bareback and look to be attempting to shove their opponents off with a large, flat-headed lance.

I think you're safer going with a real saddle than just a bareback pad and have to decide about the style of saddle for the geographic location and the riding you are planning on doing.

(I've been looking at this stuff for quite awhile. )

Jenn

[ 02-14-2006: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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lionsquire
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posted 02-14-2006 10:18 AM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Jenn,
Hm,interesting points. I'm still waiting for my copy of Duarte, hopefully it will be here next week. I'll go take a look at the Gaston Phebus book too. Thanks a bunch.

Micah

[ 02-14-2006: Message edited by: lionsquire ]


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Fire Stryker
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posted 02-14-2006 01:17 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just so you know, I'd make a working copy of Duarte, and put the original on a bookshelf. The binding for this book is "sub-standard". Mine began to fall apart before I finished reading it.

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