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Author Topic: equine history? (gelding)
Louie deStefano
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posted 12-13-2004 11:44 PM     Profile for Louie deStefano     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hello ya'll i feel a tad stupid but i had a equine question, does anybody know when horse gelding was first practiced and perfected. it seems that it would have had to be early because of the problems created when keeping stallions (especially multiple stallions.)
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Fire Stryker
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posted 12-16-2004 07:49 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't think having multiple stallions is a problem until you throw a mare into the mix. Take the Spanish Riding school for example, nothing but stallions. The mares are on breeding farms which seems to be pretty much the same concept used in the Middle Ages.

I haven't had a chance to see when the practice of gelding began or where it was perfected. If we come across something we'll post it.

Right now I am reading an interesting dissertation on "Tudor Horsemanship". There's some truely horrible things in there, not from writing or speculation, but the horrific training techniques.

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ad finem fidelis


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Gordon
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posted 12-16-2004 12:10 PM     Profile for Gordon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I would think that gelding horses goes WAY back, since it's been the usual practice of herdsmen to neuter their exess male stock from fairly early in the history of herding (it's that or eat them). And of course, the use of unichs and castrioti is pretty well documented in Classical times, so there's nothing to suggest that horses weren't dealt with in this manner as well.

Interesting point is that for the greater part of the use of horses in warfare, stallions were the preferred animal (other than in Hispano-Arab regions, where the War Mare was preferred). Stallions have the agressiveness necessary to actually attack other creatures, be they horses or men, while the very amiability that makes geldings easier to handle makes them less useful in such situations. It really wasn't until the later 17th, or even the 18th Century that geldings came to be generally used as Cavalry horses, and this was continued through the rest of the use of Cavalry until it's demise in WWII. There are referrences to using geldings prior to this of course: in the Elizabethan Militia codes "Strong Geldings" were allowed for Demi-Lancers, but not for Gendarmes.

I read through most of the Gervaise Markham book on horsemanship, published in 1625, and it's got a lot of very good, useful information. One of the author's strong points is that he constantly is reminding the reader to use gentle words and touches with the horse, and uses a few illustrations of the foolishness and dangers of being too rough with an animal. He DOES show some pretty brutal looking tools for discouraging poor behaviour in a horse, though. One would suppose that with a fairly spirited stallion it would be a good idea to have as much power over him as possible though, even though you would want to be very, very judicious in how you apply it. At any rate, it was refreshing to read such a reasonable and rational treatise from the era, not that much different from one which might be written today.

Gordon

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"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"


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chef de chambre
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posted 12-16-2004 10:10 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Looking through Gladitz's book on Medieval Horse breeding. It is pretty Eastern-centric, but does go into the English a little, but only to mention numbers in some instances, still preferring stallions over geldings for mounts.

13th Mongolians apparently had a preference for geldings. They were calm and highly obedient and were considered to have more stamina that "entires".

It probably goes back much father, but that's the only info I've found thus far.

Jenn


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Gordon
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posted 12-16-2004 11:31 PM     Profile for Gordon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jenn; Thanks, I hadn't known that the Mongols had a preferrence for geldings. Very interesting, and it certainly makes sense when dealing with large numbers of horses in a fairly small area. I know that the Mongols had some pretty strict ideas as to how to care for their horses, too, so it all goes towards the bigger picture of their over-all interests in their horses, and their ability to stay mounted at all times. (I have been informed that if a Mongol soldier was caught leading his horse by the reins, rather than by a lead, he was put to death for the infraction. That's one way to ensure that the horses don't get abused...)

It seems as though the Western Europeans were for the most part willing to put up with the baloney that goes with lots of stallions (as noted, when there aren't any mares to be found, they usually behave pretty well) in return for the strength, agressiveness and keeness that goes with it. I am given to understand that when stallions are used as high-level dressage horses, they can really "click in" and focus on their work and are exeptional in the job. The hard part is keeping their interest on the way up the ladder, LOL!

My personal preferrence is for geldings though, thank you very much.

Gordon

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"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"


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Hokala
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posted 12-17-2004 03:44 AM     Profile for Hokala   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Perhaps breed of horse has an effect on rather stallions or geldings are preffered. Not that I have such extensive experience but all of the dressage schools I have ridden at throughout Europe, mostly in Spain and Portugal, house nothing but stallions. They see no reason to ride anything else. They told me geldings and mares are not strong enough to do the high school aires. They also thought I was quite strange because I ride my broodmares. The general attitude I pick up on was that geldings are boring and weak and mares are far to obnoxious to be worth the trouble.
I don't know if it is at all possible to trace the history of castrating horses. I think it has been going on longer than anyone can remember, since man domesticated horses would be my guess.

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Angelique
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posted 12-20-2004 05:59 PM     Profile for Angelique     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I seem to remember somewhere (possibly in a study on Iberian horses) that under a number of the Spanish Kings (Charles V in particular if I recall correctly), that a gentleman of noble birth was not allowed to ride anything other than a stallion. Don't quote me, I can't find chapter and verse.

It was explained as one of the reasons that Iberian stallions are so well behaved: they were bred that way because not all noble gentlemen were top flight horseman and the horse had to make them look good.

I love stallions for dressage, they have the right amount of fire for the upper levels. I have known stallions to go from breeding shed into the Grand Prix and warm up next to mares and be an absolute gentleman.

The key is in the handling. Stallions respond to rules and respect, both earned and given.

[ 12-20-2004: Message edited by: Angelique ]

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Dahlin', this can't be real emergency, I only brought one bottle of bourbon and one bottle of Tabasco...


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