I've got a couple of the laminated poplar lances used by the WCJA for their early period jousting...but the things are monstrously heavy (in excess of 25# each) and I'm looking for alternatives.

Thanks,

[ 07-20-2004: Message edited by: Michael C ]

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Are you sure those lances weigh 25#? I imagine they might "feel" like 25 pounds if exceptionally tip heavy, but I can't imagine anybody using 25 # lances. Have you weighed them?

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Originally posted by hauptmann:
Michael,

Are you sure those lances weigh 25#? I imagine they might "feel" like 25 pounds if exceptionally tip heavy, but I can't imagine anybody using 25 # lances. Have you weighed them?

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I use lances I've made with my extended lathe which I built from a cheapo home depot 3 foot lathe. They incorporate frangible ends, connnected to the lance body with an aluminum socket. Overall the bodies probably weigh about 4-6 pounds, and the end in balsa weigh almost nothing, in solid pine about 1/2 pound. Rubber coronel adds a few ounces more. I use pine, but a hardwood might last longer but would be much more expensive.

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I recall you gave me this rundown before... IIRC you laminate 2 lengths of 2x4???

I'd be interested to know how you modified the lathe to accomodate the lance bases. I think that's gonna be my best route. Also, I imagine the pine tips are pretty easy to acquire...but what about the balsa tips. My, admittedly cursory, research has shown that 3' lengths of balsa dowels can be quite costly due to the difficulty of turning. Do you make those yourself? or do you have an affordable source?

By the by, Jeff, I don't know if you got my last email...I wanna join the US chapter of the IJA, could you send me the info?

Thanks,

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Yes, I make my lances of 2 kiln dried “whitewood” (pine) 2x4’s from Home Depot. I match them by weight and try to glue them so any bow or warpage in each board is counteracted by the other. I like Gorilla Glue, since it foams and expands to fill any voids. It also cures quickly. This glue-up yields an octagonal turning blank (after ripping on the table saw), about 3” thick. I thought about using 4x4’s, since they would yield a 3-1/2” blank, but they tend to have many more knots and if they bowin turning as the material is removed, you’re done. No way to stabilize deformation with multiple pieces of wood.

I should say that I had the idea of the pine 2x4’s when I was searching for an inexpensive but nice wood for lances. I looked at poplar, which has a pretty reasonable board-foot price wholesale, but the weight is just too much. Dom and I were ready to buy poplar at the lumber yard, having made a special trip there just for that, but rejected it due to weight and length of pieces. Also, each lance’s wood would have cost nearly $50, where pine is less than $8. And pine finishes up nice with sanding on the lathe and a coat or two of sanding sealer.

Where the ends are concerned, I built a router jig for tapering pine 2x2’s for the solid ends, then I sand them on the lathe to take off the ‘facets’ left by the router. I haven’t made any turned balsa breaking ends yet, but expect they would be pretty easy on the lathe. I wouldn’t use the router jig for balsa, because I fear it would splinter too easily on the router bit due to the coarse grain and softness of the wood. To get a consistent taper on lathe turned balsas, I think it will be wise to set up a taper guide to run the gouge on, otherwise you have to do it by eye, which is ok for a lance body, but balsas are disposable and you don’t want to spend any more time on them than absolutely necessary, and tapering by eye takes LOTS of time. As I understand it, so many jousters in England use balsa tipped lances that a couple of people over there have set up copy lathes for producing balsa ends and English Heritage, the Royal Armouries, Destrier and others just buy them in bulk, but they’re still not cheap, usually about £4-5 ($8-10) each.

Ultimately, I hope to make breaking and solid ends from foam urethane cast in a silicone rubber mold. Varying densities of foam can be used for different ‘wood’ feels and breaking resistance, say one that will duplicate the feel of solid pine, another of balsa. This will speed production, reduce cost and eliminate splinters, which is such a fear with wood. Wood ends could still be used in tournaments if desired, but having lance ends for practice and training that aren’t too expensive is always an issue. The same technique I intend for the ends could be used for the lance bodies, just a bigger mold and more rtv.

I’m not quite sure where my lance making is going after I get the required number done for the Armouries’ tournament next month. I want to gear up production to sell them, but that will mean more refined tooling to speed production, and I need another product offering like I need a hole in the head. This is why I’m leaning toward the molded resin lances and ends. It’s just a matter of whether the potential market will justify the mold cost.

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quote:

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Originally posted by hauptmann:
Michael,

Are you sure those lances weigh 25#? I imagine they might "feel" like 25 pounds if exceptionally tip heavy, but I can't imagine anybody using 25 # lances. Have you weighed them?

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Finally got around to it... ok so I'm a a bit hyperbolous They anly weighed in at 12 lbs. But dang it they're just too darn heavy to try to control. Maybe I'll just whack 'em down and try to use them for bases.

~M

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As Peter says, our beech lances weigh in at about 4 kgs unpainted and with no tip. Painted and with a solid tip they probably weigh as much as the WCJA ones do.

However they are balanced back towards the handle and feel like a good fishing rod - easy to manipulate and precise in the point control.

Michael - I can send you the plans and specifications for them electronically if you want them.

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URL=http://www.jousting.co.nz

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Originally posted by Callum Forbes:

Michael - I can send you the plans and specifications for them electronically if you want them.

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Thanks Callum... That would br *very* helpful. I have to agree with your comments re: the WCJA lances, poorly balanced and dangerously unwieldy.

~M

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