I was re-reading the MoL book on the medieval horse and its equipment, and came across a reference to the fact that medieval farriers are charging more than the normal rate to shoe warhorses, presumably because there was a certain element of danger associated with it.

I'm going to chase up the reference it gives (....to a book published in 1868, which isn't a good sign!), but in the meantime, does anyone else have any data about this?

We have a local farrier who charges one rate for those of us who know better and another rate for those people who don't consider a farrier "any good" unless he charges them $150 for a four shoe reset. Makes you wonder if this is a traditional habit of the farrier...

Brenna

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We've plenty of accounts of procurement of horse shoes, and nothing in them implies that they are being shod with any kind of specialised shoe.

What does that leave us, other than that they're a pain to shoe? (That isn't a rhetorical question, for all I know there really is some other ffactor involved!)

Temperment could play a very large part. Ayton I believe talks about grooms being attacked by warhorses. A lot of farriers in our area don't like "problem" horses that won't stand and if they have to deal with a surprise, they do tend to charge more for the extra time they have to spend fighting with the horse.

While specialty shoes may not have been the "norm" as we know them today, what about price of metal and the size of the shoe?

For example, our 'kids' wear size 3 shoes. Another friend's horse wears 4s. Larger modern breeds have even larger shoe sizes.

After recently going to a shoeing lecture, we have changed over to Cytek shoes.

Cytek shoes are cold shod, and come further in that conventional shoes so the support the soles as well as the wall of the hoof. They are also cut back a little so they don't come to the front of the hoof. The analogy they gave for this is that to imagine trying to walk with fixed toes so they can not flex when you move forward on them, and that's how a conventional shoe work the horse's hoof, creating greater stress in the wall of the hoof.

The reason for waffling on about this was they also had a 500 year old show which matches the modern Cytek shoes exactly (well, mostly)

The Cytek shoes are cast rather than forged (hence why cold shod), and the UK international teams use these shoes as well. The shoes can last up to three times as long between shoeing as well, due to the lack of stress on the wall of the hoof and stuff.

More info may be found on http://www.cytekhorse.com/

There are also several accounts of bystanders and competitors at jousts and tourneys being injured by warhorses, including - if I remember correctly - Antoine, grand bastard of burgundy, who I seem to recall is kicked so badly at one tourney that he isn't expected to live. I can dig out the details if you burgundian folk want them.

Incidentally, while I was looking at the compensation payments to grooms who were injured by warhorses, I also noticed that another groom is paid far more compensation for a cracked skull after Edward I beats him around the head with a serving spoon. Sometimes, the warhorses are safer to be around than their owners!

In the modern FEI level dressage world, it's always the inexperienced grooms and handlers that get injured by the stallions because they have yet to learn how to walk the line between mutual respect/consistent discipline and trying to aggressively dominate an animal that can easily kill them. Makes one wonder if there is a correlation.

Brenna

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Modern incidents that I have witnessed or heard are:

A fellow who used to keep his daughter's horse at our barn, thought horses were big stupid animals that could be forced into doing something like getting into a trailer. He struck the horse and ended up popping his bicep. Another incident involving the trailer ended up with the horse with a gash on it's forehead and the man never getting the horse in the trailer. He was part of the set who believed if you threw enough money at a "problem" it would go away. His daughter was also afraid of her own horse. We never had a problem with this horse. It's pretty sad when her horse respected and would behave for us because we paid attention to the horse or treated it with the same respect we give our own.

Another incident involved an arabian stallion in a halter class. the handler (who apparently had a rep for being "abusive") struck the horse in the ring and the stallion turned and bit the guy right in the ribs to the applause of the bystanders. I believe the fellow was fired by the owners after that day.

So who knows, it could be temperment for many things: shoeing, handling, etc...

Besides, isn't at least one of the bills for a wall of a house or something similarly inanimate that gets destroyed by one of Ed III's little pets, implying that even things that don't provoke them can get trashed sometimes.

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I doubt it, one does not get to be a groom in the Royal stables as a complete novice. At the time (14th century), a grooms duties were as much veterenary/theraputic, as in grooming, excersising, monitoring feed and the 'fewmets' to monitor the horses overall health.

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Sounds like the professional, high level groom of today. It does bring up an interesting point though--how does one get into the royal stables? Who does the hiring? Does the head groom interview? Or the head of the household? Could a potential groom "tell stories" about his experience and get hired anyway? Then you find out he's not so experienced when one of the stallions tries to eat him. That sounds a little familiar too. I bet this is one area that has never been studied and could never be documented for certain one way or the other. Unless there's a manuscript hidden away in some household account with interview notes on prospective grooms. Now would that not be a cool find?

And, oh yes, there are some horses that are just plain destructive, no matter who handles them.

The accidents point is good too. Typically it tends to be the more "memorable" things that get recorded, so perhaps the accidents were more the exception than the rule. That's certainly what one goes for in a well run equestrian establishment in the modern era.

Brenna

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Brenna ]

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grooms are often regarded as potential sources of disruption and general chaos for the rest of the household, with consequent efforts to keep them under control and prevent "horseplay",

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LOL, the more things change, the more things stay the same. No one works harder or plays harder in the modern horse world than a professional show groom.
Brenna

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