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Author Topic: References
Ivo
Member
Member # 297

posted 08-03-2002 09:54 AM     Profile for Ivo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello.

There´s one thing that´s missing pretty often: References.
Please don´t get me wrong, I received a lot of information from this forum and its members, but in several cases I would have been even more grateful if only I had gotten the chance to purchase and read several books myself.

So, please, be so kind to add at least titles and authors, and, if possible, ISBN of the works you drew your knowledge from, to give others the opportunity to further stuff up their bookshelves.

Thanks in advance,
regards

Ivo

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Ivo


Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Friedrich
Member
Member # 40

posted 08-03-2002 09:34 PM     Profile for Friedrich   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ivo,

You are absolutely correct when research is presented, it needs references. And, more appropriately, it needs original references. Not some author quoting another author quoting another (just because it was stated somewhere).

However, what you ask may sometimes be very difficult. Why? Because the references certain individuals use on this forum (particularly Gwen and Chef de Chambre) number well into the many hundreds if not approaching a thousand.

However, what you ask is something well worth considering. In the spirit of promoting and research learning, we should reference the sources worth further investigating so readers know where to look. And how to learn where to look.

FvH


Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 08-04-2002 08:33 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Ivo,

On what topic? We can give a decent list of books on almost any topic.

Most studies or surveys dealing with objects of the material culture are of course modern, and that covers about 90% of the topics asked on the forums, so you in large part would not be dealing with original manuscript and folio numbers from the BN or the BR in Brussels or the like. Most of us can provide you with the references to the primary resources when it comes to the history, but most questions don't fall into those catagories.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
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Member # 126

posted 08-04-2002 11:35 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I -could- take the time to make a list of the top 300 books I use...but it would take a ton of time, and the likelyhood that you'll actually find/purchase and/or read books like "Chaucer and Costume - The Secular Pilgrims in the General Prologue" ( L. Hodges, ISBN 0-85991-577-8) or "Estrangement, Enterprise and Education in 15th Century England" (S. Michaelove & A.C. Reeves, ISBN0-7509-1384-3) is so low I can't afford the time.

I do post references when I can and will endeavor to do more in the future.

It is likely that Brent and I will be working on updating the Red Company bibliography after I return from my show. The resulting list will be posted on the Red Company site. In the interval I believe the Wolf Argent site has a bibliography you could start wading through.

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ivo
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Member # 297

posted 08-05-2002 12:54 PM     Profile for Ivo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello.

I am afraid I am confronted with two problems- English is not my first language, and so I probably have got an ungrateful undertone to everything?!

My question is based upon experiences I made in several "medieval" forums here in Germany which made me a bit suspicious about everything. A bit like X-Files: Trust no-one;o)
Really, over here most serious re-enactors and living history folks mostly stay among themselves, and the online forums are run and visited mostly by the not-so-serious, fun-seeking hobby-"knights". There´s been a lot of changes recently, but in most cases only the vocabulary changed.

I started this thread only because I didn´t want to ask the same question over and over again in any thread. I know you are of the serious sort, and exactly that is why I keep asking my silly questions and sort of feel like home.
There´s a lot of publications in English the mentioning of which might seem useless to long time experienced living history-ans and might be considered standard literature for anyone in this hobby, but- I´d like to get this standard literature myself, which is literally impossible without the slightest hint.

Of course, many threads would require a long list, but in more particular areas or in question of illustrations current and available publications would do.

Just an example: in one of the arms and armour threads people wrote freely about a seemingly familiar thing/place/painting/manuscript named "Madonna delle Grazie"- I had no idea whatsover what these people were talking about.
Or the mentionig of the "Burgunderbeute"- of course, it´s the Burgundian booty the swiss captured in the 1470s, but- is there a book? A catalogue? An exhibition? A homepage familiar to you?

i hope I could make my idea perfectly clear and do not give you the impression of a rude, ungrateful boy. I am not. I am just keen to find out more, learn more and buy more books, and I am very, very grateful for any hint to help me doing so.
I hope this made sense.

Regards

Ivo

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Ivo


Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 08-05-2002 02:02 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No Worries Ivo!

Yes, it is interesting the differing attitudes of the reenactment/LH community to the net. Here in the US, the serious groups use it alongside the not so serious, because it is the most convenmient method of cummunication in a country five times larger then Western Europe, with our different groups literaly seperated by thousands of miles.

You mention the net and forums to some people in Europe, and they assume automaticaly that somehow you can't possibly be serious in intent - not you obviously.

Happily, I have the info for both of the books you mention off the top of your list.

"Die Burgunderbeute", by Florens Deuchler, Stampfli 1963 - no ISBN readily available, is a catalog compiled by an art historian (I believe that was his principle training) of the material objects still extant captured from the Burgundians by the Swiss in 1476-1477. The list is staggering, and a unique survival of Medieval textiles, flags, gold and silver plate, weapons, armour (weak in these two departments, much more was captured and is still extant than what is listed), and artillery, jewels, etc. From my limited reading, (and Deutsch is obviously not my native language! You would laugh to hear me speak it, I can pronounce the words well enough, but my sentence-structure and grammar are all wrong. I have a German friend who giggles every time she hears me try to communicate) Florens Deuchler is presenting these objects, and compsring them to objects made in the Holy Roman Empire after that date, and is making a case for these Burgundian treasures having a profound influence on the form of German art into the early 16th century. It is a wonderful book, and would be vry enlightening for you. It is most definitely a scholarly work.

The Second Book is the gospel of Italian armour evolution across the course of the 15th century, as brought to you from on High by the prophet Dr. Lionello G. Boccia. Seriously though, I can't stress how important a book it is - it is never far from hand to me.

It's full title is "Le Armature Di S. Maria Delle Grazi Di Curatone Di Mantova E L'Armatura Lombarda Del '400" , Lionello G. Boccia,1982Bramante Editrice - again, no ISBN, but you can see why we cut down on the title.

Now my reading Italian is far worse than my reading German - I can maybe make out 20% of what is being written, except for technical armour terms. The main thrust of the book I have been able to puzzle out is that it is a Thesis by L.G.Boccia tracing the evolution of Italian armour across the 15th century, both in concurant art and extant pieces, he seemingly is saying that every half decade there is a steady progess in form of Italian armour. He also can pick out regional variations - fortuitously for me, he wrote an article in English explaining some of this for a Catalog and essays for the Philidelphia Museum of Art.

It is THE armour bible for Italian armour (well alongside his monumental tome on armour in Lombardy in general), and it is chock full of close up and interior detail photographs of important suits of Italian armour.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
AnnaRidley
Member
Member # 97

posted 08-07-2002 12:05 PM     Profile for AnnaRidley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I too will try to make sure I am not sloppy about refereing to sources. However, here's a list of the ones that I tend to be the worst about.

MOL - Musuem of London, Medieval Finds from Excavations in London Series.
Titles from this series have recently been republished by Boydell and Brewer. A good archaeological series, the finds are mostly dated c1150-1400.
Knives and Scabbards ISBN: 0851158056
Shoes and Pattens ISBN: 0851158382
Dress Accessories ISBN: 0851158390
Textiles and Clothing ISBN: 0851158404
Medieval Horse and its Equipment ASIN: 0112904858
Medieval Household ISBN: 0112904904

AY 17/# - The Archaeology of York
Published by the York Archaeological Trust. 17 indicates that it is part of the small finds series. These books tend to also have discussions of how things worked in addition to what they looked like. For example there is a wonderful explanation of medieval locks in 17/6. http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/pubs/pubs.php


Authors commonly refered to in the Textiles area and what they are known for:
Newton Stella Mary Newton
Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince: A Study of the Years 1340-1365 - ISBN: 085115767X
an in depth look at the wardrobe accounts and other documentary evidence from the English court during the mid 14th century.

Norlund
Nörlund, Poul. "Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes: an archaeological and historical study." Meddelelser om Gronland: Udgivne af Kommissionen for ledelsen af de geologiske og geogrfiske undersogelser i Gronland. Bind LXVII. Kobenhavn: C.A. Reitzel, 1924.
Archaeological account of 14th and 15th century garments found in Greenland. Many people base their patterns off of these finds.

Nockert
Nockert, Margareta. Bockstenmannen, Och Hans Dräkt. Halmstad och Varberg: Stiftelsen Hallands länsmuseer, 1985. [The Bocksten Man and his Clothes.]
Details of a 14th century man that was found in a glacier.

In any case please feel free to pipe up and ask any time i've been sloppy about a reference.

Mitake.


Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged

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