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Author Topic: St. Julien? Help!
chef de chambre
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posted 01-12-2002 03:45 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi All,

I am seeking an image of St. Julian, preferably c. 1450 - 1480, after the Flemish fashion, although Northern French art is acceptable also.

I want to see how Flemish painters typicaly depicted him.

Thanks in advance for your help!

--------------------

Bob R.


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chef de chambre
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posted 01-25-2002 09:48 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bump!

How about a resource to look it up in? I've tried the web, even a Catholic forum on saints, but other than the Pisanello fresco and the statue and miniature of him rowing a boat with his wife, I can't find anything.

Help!!!!

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Bob R.


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NEIL G
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posted 01-25-2002 12:05 PM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Chef;

The Royal Armouries have just started a "The tale of St Julian" interpretation in their Hunting gallery.

They had the narrator as a well-dressed c14th huntsman, but don't know what their evidence for it was.

Why do you particularly need an image of St Julian?

Neil


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chef de chambre
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posted 01-25-2002 12:27 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah, well, that is the interesting part.

You see, having been able to pin down a history of the particular company of the ordinances we portray, and a list showing the Saints of the various companies in order of precedence, the 10th company (us) had St. Julien as the company Saint.

Since there is no extant Burgundian standard showing St. Julien (unless the Lucern Flag books St. Hubert Standard is really depicting St, Julien), and we have an upcoming flag project, I need a Flemish or northern French image of St. Julian painted between 1450 - 1480 to use as a guide. Prefferably the one dressed as a young nobleman with a hawk, or the saint depicted with a hart. His ferrying a boat is too awkward an image to cram in near the hoist. All except one image in surviving flags shows a single human figure when a St. is depicted, I would assume the same for Julien.

If you could find me an image, I'd be grateful.

--------------------

Bob R.


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NEIL G
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posted 01-25-2002 12:54 PM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Chef;

Total off-the-wall suggestion;

I can only think of a few of images of St Julian, of which one is the fresco in the Ufffizzi (I can start spelling that name, but I'm never sure when to stop), and both the others are a) side panels of Altarpieces and B) Italian.

I don't know whether St Julian is especially popular for altar pieces, triptychs etc, but might be worth some sort of web search to test the theory.

Neil


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chef de chambre
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posted 01-25-2002 01:19 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Neil,

Oh, I've been web searching for quite a bit. I found the Pisanello fresco you reference. Someone was kind enough to supply me with a link to the Italian altarpiece.

From my reading, his main center of veneration was the Low Countries, and Northern France. He was supressed at a later date as he is a pious myth rather than a person who actually lived, but he was wildly popular in the aforementioned region. He was apparently the patron St. of Belgium (Hainault, more properly).

This is why I find it puzzleing that I can't find a picture of him from the very time, and very era he was most popular in.

--------------------

Bob R.


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Ulfgar
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posted 02-03-2002 07:49 PM     Profile for Ulfgar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I believe there is also a chapel to St Julian in Penzance, although I understood that it was "St Julian the fisherman"???

--------------------

Yes, these are bruises from fighting.That's right, I'm enlightened!


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chef de chambre
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posted 02-03-2002 08:43 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Ulfgfar,

Different St. Julien. It doesn't help that there were a half-dozen St. Juliens on the callendar during the middle ages. Mine is St. Julien the Hospitaler, who is/was the patron St. of Belgium. I wonder how you can still be a patron St. when you are no longer on the callendar, and worse yet "a pious fiction". Makes "Mr. Christophers - occasional Saint" travails look simple in comparison.

Thanks for the help though!

--------------------

Bob R.


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Bob Hurley
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posted 02-04-2002 10:50 PM     Profile for Bob Hurley     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, this one isn't quite what you requested, but it may lead you somewhere useful: http://www.bnf.fr/enlum-bin/afiche.exe?a6_0090.htm&/enluminures/themes/t_2/st_2_03/a203_011.htm&Other+saints

To what era and style are the illustrations for du Berry's Book of Hours attributed?


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Adhemar
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posted 02-05-2002 12:50 PM     Profile for Adhemar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, it depends on the actual book in question as to the date, but most of his 'hours' were done late 1300 - early 1400. To narrow it further, I'd say 1380-1420.

I'm at a loss as to where t ofind an image for St. Julian in this locale and time. Everthing I've found so far is Itailan or Spanish, and many out of period...

Ta

Morgan

--------------------

Ta

Adhemar

Imagination was given to man to
compensate him for what he is not;
a sense of humor to console him
for what he is.


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