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Author Topic: Guilds
Gwen
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Member # 126

posted 01-10-2002 01:54 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Does anyone know if specific guilds were more "prestigious" and therefore occupied a higher "rank" than other guilds? I'm wondering if say, if a member of the Pin Maker's Guild was as important as an Armourer, or if a Silkwoman ranked as highly as a Saddler, that sort of thing.

Gwen


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NEIL G
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Member # 187

posted 01-10-2002 02:55 AM     Profile for NEIL G     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Gwen;

Guilds and livery companies are definitely "ranked" in late medieval london. What criteria were used, I don't know, but it affected things like where they were placed in processions, stuff like that.

I believe that a list of the guilds in order of precedence probably survives, since I've seen references to this ranking to the effect that the Guild of horse coursers is 97th of the 115 guilds listed or whatever.

However, I've never seen a copy of the list itself, and don't know what guilds were at the top etc.

Sorry not to be more help

Neil


Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 01-10-2002 08:16 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have seen the list somewhere (I think it is based on the one set down by the alderman in the 16th c), fairly recently for the London Guilds, but have not seen any for those in Europe.

There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to how order of precedence was made during the 15th c.

Here is an example with the problem of precedence:

quote:
Until the Court of Alderman finally settled the order of precedence of the livery companies in the 16th century, the random variations in the positions in which companies were listed in the 15th century may have arisen from accident or design--but there is no way of knowing which. For example, in April 1420 the Saddlers were 13th in a list of 17 companies, headed by the Mercers, Grocers and Vintners. In the following year, the Saddlers were seventh in a list of 10 companies, this time headed by the Grocers, Drapers and Mercers. Yet again, May 1423, the Saddlers appeared seventh in a list of 18 companies-with the first three places once more going to the Mercers, Grocers and Vintners.

In October 1425 the Saddlers appeared first out of 12 companies summoned for tunnage and poundage-but in June 1437 they were last in a list of 11 companies sworn to keep the peace.(14)

It seems that early 15th-century precedence among the companies-as far as Guildhall was concerned, at any rate-had no special significance. Towards the end of the century, however, it was obviously being taken much more seriously as the celebrated struggle for sixth place between the Skinners and the Merchant Taylors-and the Haberdasher Mayor Billesden's solomonic judgement of 1484-proved. On the other hand, the summoning of the companies for civic ceremonial, their placing on the processional route and the limit on the number of torches to be carried by each company does indicate that there was a rough pecking order in being before it became stratified by alderman decree.


In the "Hold Fast, Sit Sure" there are other examples from the 15th century regarding order of precedence, but the above gives you an idea of how it did change until the 16th century.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gina
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Member # 247

posted 01-12-2002 03:44 AM     Profile for Gina   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Gwen,

English Silkwomen didn't rank with any of the gilds - as they never formed a proper gild. They seem to have banded together when needed,to petition Parliament against imports for instance. As to ranking of other gilds, it may be a clue that those silkwomen who seem to have more important were married to mercers, goldsmiths and tailors, so perhaps their prestige was partially due to their husband's social standing?

--------------------

Gina-b Silkwork & Passementerie
Tak v Bowes Departed
Soper Lane


Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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