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Author Topic: What is the medieval term for a junk man?
Doug Strong
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posted 05-01-2001 10:18 AM     Profile for Doug Strong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What would the late 14th century equivallent of the Victorian "Rag and Bone man" be? This would be the person who collects junk or garbage and hauls it away.

I presume (though I have no evidence) the profession or at least the activity existed in the cities and larger towns.

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Doug Strong
doug-strong@comcast.net

http://armourresearchsociety.org

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com
Armour patterns, shoemaking books, reproductions buckles, jewelry and accessories. Historical antiquites and artifacts from every period starting at one dollar ($1)


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Doug Strong
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posted 05-01-2001 02:44 PM     Profile for Doug Strong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peder:
Are you talking about a sanitation enginier(garbage man) or about something else?

Brent


One of the things I do is sell antiquities. Buckles, buttons, strap ends, thing s of that nature. Essentially I am selling medieval "garbage." Things which were lost, broken or thrown away in the middle ages. I though it might be entertaining to make a sign for my antiquities booth stating something like "Talbot the rag and bone man"

Any medieval ideas?

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Doug Strong
doug-strong@comcast.net

http://armourresearchsociety.org

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com
Armour patterns, shoemaking books, reproductions buckles, jewelry and accessories. Historical antiquites and artifacts from every period starting at one dollar ($1)


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gaukler
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posted 05-01-2001 07:36 PM     Profile for gaukler   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If you sold more textiles, you could be a Fripperer.
mark

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mark@medievalwares.com
http://www.medievalwares.com
medieval metalwork and authentic antiquities


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Doug Strong
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posted 05-02-2001 09:23 AM     Profile for Doug Strong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gaukler:
If you sold more textiles, you could be a Fripperer.
mark

Alass I have no more than 20 textile pieces and thousands of metal bits, so that won't work

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Doug Strong
doug-strong@comcast.net

http://armourresearchsociety.org

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com
Armour patterns, shoemaking books, reproductions buckles, jewelry and accessories. Historical antiquites and artifacts from every period starting at one dollar ($1)


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chef de chambre
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posted 05-02-2001 10:12 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, you don't want to be called a 'gong farmer', even though a lot of what you carry was dug out of latrines.....

Metal bits wern't recycled as a proffession, they usually got tossed out on the midden heap when broken.

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Bob R.


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Doug Strong
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posted 05-02-2001 10:20 AM     Profile for Doug Strong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I though about Gong Farmer but that is not quite right. I have to believe there must have been a junk man. If dung was transported why not garbage?

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Doug Strong
doug-strong@comcast.net

http://armourresearchsociety.org

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com
Armour patterns, shoemaking books, reproductions buckles, jewelry and accessories. Historical antiquites and artifacts from every period starting at one dollar ($1)


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Anne-Marie
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posted 05-02-2001 10:50 AM     Profile for Anne-Marie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chef de chambre:
Well, you don't want to be called a 'gong farmer', even though a lot of what you carry was dug out of latrines.....

Metal bits wern't recycled as a proffession, they usually got tossed out on the midden heap when broken.


whta makes you say that, Bob?
I havent heard of anyone who recycles metal bits professionally, but we have evidence that metal bits were indeed recycled...there's that wonderful Scandanavian tool chest they dug out of the bog with all the great tools and even some broken metal pots that the archaeologists thought were for patching material (they were too small for repair)...

Metal is VERY expensive, far more so than labor in our period. I cant believe they'd toss it out when it broke. Even base metal trinkets can be melted down and recast (unless they get lost in the muck of the THames )

of course other than that tool chest, I have no documentary evidence, and so eagerly await the reams of material to show me wrong .

--AM, another one of those nitpicky detail mongers

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"Let Good Come of It"


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chef de chambre
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posted 05-02-2001 12:00 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Am,

Certainly, small metal bits like buckles, broken knives, & ect were often thrown away. The Museum of London finds books on "Buckles & findings" and "Knives and scabbards provides ample evidence of the practise. Since the vast majority of that was junk that was thrown in a landfill intentionally, along with entire sections of old housing, I'd say that my statement was justified. Ask an archaeologist how much of the little bits they find were precisely dug out of latrines.

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Bob R.


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Doug Strong
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posted 05-02-2001 12:33 PM     Profile for Doug Strong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have lots of broken items which were repaired for re use in their working lives. Here are two examples a buckle which has been wired in place when the buckle plate broke, a buckle plate which was repaired quite poorly nad a horse harness pendant wired together.



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Doug Strong
doug-strong@comcast.net

http://armourresearchsociety.org

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com
Armour patterns, shoemaking books, reproductions buckles, jewelry and accessories. Historical antiquites and artifacts from every period starting at one dollar ($1)


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Fire Stryker
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posted 05-02-2001 01:08 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So then it would be safe to say that both practices occured...yes?

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ad finem fidelis


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Johannes
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posted 05-02-2001 04:01 PM     Profile for Johannes   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Talbot:

I presume (though I have no evidence) the profession or at least the activity existed in the cities and larger towns.

I haven't posted earlier because I can't find my copy of it, but I believe in Nigel Mill's Medieval Artifacts he discusses the origin of the "mudlarks". They were children and adults who managed to subsist on what they recovered from the Thames shore and the sewers. It brings up images of Dickens, but I seem to remember him saying it went back quite a ways. If they could eek out a nominal living on what they found, there had to be at least some trade in these things. Doug, I know you got a copy of this book from me last year, see what it has to say. And I will go back to moving piles of books looking for mine.

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Johannes


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Fire Stryker
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posted 05-02-2001 04:33 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Talbot,
take a look at the job descriptions on this site. Jobs are listed from A-Z. I don't know about the historical entry of them, but if anything it might give you a clue as to where to search further for the information.

http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/trades.html

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ad finem fidelis


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Doug Strong
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posted 05-07-2001 10:07 AM     Profile for Doug Strong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Two new pieces of info . The city of Bruges in the Netherlands had a guild of Ragmen in 1407 and Geoff Egan, whom I had the opportunity to meet and talk wiht at the Medeival Conference at Kalamazoo this weekend, recommends the term "Dong Farmer" as also applying ot garbage men. He says there is a better term though he just could not remember it.

--------------------

Doug Strong
doug-strong@comcast.net

http://armourresearchsociety.org

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com
Armour patterns, shoemaking books, reproductions buckles, jewelry and accessories. Historical antiquites and artifacts from every period starting at one dollar ($1)


Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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