I disputed this conclusion, thinking that Joan was of course wearing MEN’S underwear, not women’s underwear. Not having any documentation to back up my position, I kept my thoughts to myself. Now that I have transcripts of the depositions made for her trial, I have the full picture.

I am quoting Adrianne Harmand’s “Jeanne d'Arc: ses costumes, son armure: 1929. Thanks to Jeffrey Singman at the Higgins for the translation from the French. The bold type is mine.

...Joan took the clothing of a man at Vaucouleurs, at the time of her departure for Chinon, around the end of February 1429; she kept it until the evening of her abjuration the 24th May 1431, that is for more than 27 months....”

From the deposition at Joan’s trial:
“...Henri le Royer, with whom Joan lodged during her stay at Vaucouleurs: "When Joan came to our house, she was wearing a red woman's robe. She was given a man's garment, hose, a full outfit...”

“...John of Metz: "When I saw Joan for the first time, she was wearing a poor and worn robe, red in color... I asked her again if she wished to travel with her women's garments. She said, "I would gladly take men's clothing." Then I gave her the clothing and shoes of one of my men. Next the people of Vaucouleurs had made for her a man's robe, hose, boots, all the necessary gear...”

“...Bertrand de Poulegny:. "Meanwhile John of Metz and I with the aid of the people of Vaucouleurs, arranged that Joan abandoned her women's garments, which were red, and we obtained for her a robe and clothes of a man...”

“...Article 12 of the act of accusation put forth by the promoter John of Estivet, begins thus: "in order to better and more openly achieve her end, Joan made request to the captain of Vaucouleurs that one should make for her men's clothing along with arms. The captain, albeit reluctantly and with great revulsion, finally acceded to Joan's wish. There were made for her clothing and arms. Thus she abandoned and rejected all female clothing, had her hair cut round after the fashion of young man, takes shirt, breeches,jupon, hose joined together, long and attached to the said jupon by 20
points, high topped shoes laced outside, a short robe not passing the knee, or thereabouts; cut hood, narrow boots, long spurs, sword, dagger, cuirass, lance, and in short all the equipment of a man at arms."

In this way we see that my assumption was correct, that Joan of Arc was outfitted in the clothing of a man down to the skin. She wore a man’s shirt and braies/breeches, along with all the other garments and accessories of a man.

(The following is not directed and not meant as a jab, just my contribution to the general information pot! )

I thought this bit an interesting look at how cross-dressing was viewed in 1429:

"...The doctors made objection that she had rejected all female clothing and had her hair cut round after the fashion of young man. Now it is written: "a woman will not take the clothing of a man, and a man will not take a habit of the woman; for he who does this is abominable before God (Deuteronomy 22:5). The council of Gangres, held the under the reign of Valens, had imposed the anathema on those women who dressed as man and cut their hair....”

and this, the reasoning behind women covering their hair (which I never knew before)

“...at Chinon, in the presence of the King, she "kneeled and doffed her hood."

The numerous onlookers were surprised. Many took Joan for a boy. The others were astonished by this hair cropped round on the head of a girl. The devil, it had been said, dances on the hair of women whose head was unveiled. If Joan wasn't a boy then what was she? "Women of every age and every condition," says Anatole France very correctly, "took great care to pull their hair under the hennin, the coif, the veil, so that not a strand stuck out. And this free hair on a woman's head was a strange thing at the time...."

I love research!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ginevra:
Some time ago there was discussion regarding female under wear. A point was made that Joan of Arc wore underwear, therefore proving that women in general wore underwear.

I disputed this conclusion, thinking that Joan was of course wearing MEN’S underwear, not women’s underwear. Not having any documentation to back up my position, I kept my thoughts to myself. Now that I have transcripts of the depositions made for her trial, I have the full picture.

I am quoting Adrianne Harmand’s “Jeanne d'Arc: ses costumes, son armure: 1929. Thanks to Jeffrey Singman at the Higgins for the translation from the French. The bold type is mine.

...Joan took the [b]clothing of a man at Vaucouleurs, at the time of her departure for Chinon, around the end of February 1429; she kept it until the evening of her abjuration the 24th May 1431, that is for more than 27 months....”

From the deposition at Joan’s trial:
“...Henri le Royer, with whom Joan lodged during her stay at Vaucouleurs: "When Joan came to our house, she was wearing a red woman's robe. She was given a man's garment, hose, a full outfit...”

“...John of Metz: "When I saw Joan for the first time, she was wearing a poor and worn robe, red in color... I asked her again if she wished to travel with her women's garments. She said, "I would gladly take men's clothing." Then I gave her the clothing and shoes of one of my men. Next the people of Vaucouleurs had made for her a man's robe, hose, boots, all the necessary gear...”

“...Bertrand de Poulegny:. "Meanwhile John of Metz and I with the aid of the people of Vaucouleurs, arranged that Joan abandoned her women's garments, which were red, and we obtained for her a robe and clothes of a man...”

“...Article 12 of the act of accusation put forth by the promoter John of Estivet, begins thus: "in order to better and more openly achieve her end, Joan made request to the captain of Vaucouleurs that one should make for her men's clothing along with arms. The captain, albeit reluctantly and with great revulsion, finally acceded to Joan's wish. There were made for her clothing and arms. Thus she abandoned and rejected all female clothing, had her hair cut round after the fashion of young man, takes shirt, breeches,jupon, hose joined together, long and attached to the said jupon by 20
points, [/B]

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did anyone else notice the bit telling us what girls stockings looked like? (ie boys hose are "long, joined together, etc". ergo, one assumes that girls hose are NOT, ie the knee high stocking idea is probably more true than not! hooray! another bit of evidence in one of those "we dont know anything" areas....

Gwen, can you give me the ISBN of this book?

Did you need documntation for stockings? I have an engraving of one of those "henpecking" scenes where you can see the woman's knee-high stockings and the garters that hold them up.

Sorry, no ISBN. However, interlibrary loan seems to be able to find it.

I might add that this book is a really *wonderful* resource for anyone who wants to do a circa 1427-29 portrayal. There is a TON of contemporary resource material, reconstructed (but plausible) patterns, the whole 9 yards. Of course, you have to be able to read French, or know someone who does!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ginevra:

Did you need documntation for stockings? I have an engraving of one of those "henpecking" scenes where you can see the woman's knee-high stockings and the garters that hold them up.

Gwen

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Yes please! I can get a copy when I see you in May, maybe?

--AM