FireStryker Living History Forum : Middle Eastern maille/plate armor

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Topic: Middle Eastern maille/plate armor

Lord Thomas the Black
Member
Member # 394

posted 03-05-2007 06:08 AM

I hope someone here can help me. I'm helping a friend re-create a Middle-eastern maille shirt, with engraved plates across the front. because of the design on the plates, he doesn't want them to overlap, but want something under them to keep them from gaping when he leans back (this is an SCA fighter). We've seen pics of maille and plate shirts with what looks like a thinner plate underneath the decorated outer plates, but we can't find anything that shows how they were connected. Can anyone help with some pictures of either just the plates from one of these types of shirts, or with some explaination of how they were linked together? Thanks!

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Lord Thomas the Black
of House Leatherwolf
Rogue #693, Merc #373,
Mailler, Leathersmith

Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 03-05-2007 02:02 PM

Hi Thomas,

THese sorts of plate and mail defences evolved. What time frame are we talking about? I've seen late 16th or early 17th century examples closing with what looks like sneck-hooks, for example.

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ad finem fidelis

Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

Lord Thomas the Black
Member
Member # 394

posted 03-06-2007 04:34 AM

I'm not sure what time frame it'd be. Middle-eastern armor isn't my specialty. My main job in all this is to tailor the maille. He's trying to re-create a shirt seen in "Kingdom of Heaven", by Saladin's second-in-command at Kerak. I'm not concerned with how the shirt was closed in the front, I'm looking for how the plates were connected top-to-bottom on each side. Also, were the plates attached over the maille, or did they replace the maille altogether?

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Lord Thomas the Black
of House Leatherwolf
Rogue #693, Merc #373,
Mailler, Leathersmith

Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 03-06-2007 01:23 PM

Hi Thomas,

So, you are trying to create a copy of the movie prop? Or are you looking at an actual plate and mail defence? I ask, because they may have made all sorts of shortcuts on the movie prop.

It is my understanding that the plates themselves are linked together with small links of mail, and that there is no mail under them in that sort of defence, but they become part of the fabric of the armour.

It's not my area of study either, but maybe we can steer you in the correct direction. Have you talked to Patrick Thaden? He has been to Istanbul, and some museums thereabouts, perhaps he took some shots of these sorts of defences - the Turks used them extensively in the 16th and 16th centuries, as did the Timurids, Mamluks, and the various Indian states.

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Bob R.

Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

Kent
Member
Member # 161

posted 03-06-2007 06:52 PM

Hi --
I do not know anything at all about these guys, but I came across their site a few years back, and remembered them -- they may be able to offer info or guidance.
Maybe worth a try:
http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/

Good luck

Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

Lord Thomas the Black
Member
Member # 394

posted 03-07-2007 04:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by chef de chambre:
Hi Thomas,
So, you are trying to create a copy of the movie prop? Or are you looking at an actual plate and mail defence? I ask, because they may have made all sorts of shortcuts on the movie prop.
It is my understanding that the plates themselves are linked together with small links of mail, and that there is no mail under them in that sort of defence, but they become part of the fabric of the armour.
It's not my area of study either, but maybe we can steer you in the correct direction. Have you talked to Patrick Thaden? He has been to Istanbul, and some museums thereabouts, perhaps he took some shots of these sorts of defences - the Turks used them extensively in the 16th and 16th centuries, as did the Timurids, Mamluks, and the various Indian states.

It's complicated. Basically, he saw the movie prop and liked it, so we started looking at similar shirts to figure out how it was done. The actual shirts are beyond his persona period, but he likes the look of them.

Thanks for the lead on Patrick Thaden. Do you have an email for him you could PM me with? I'd appreciate it.

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Lord Thomas the Black
of House Leatherwolf
Rogue #693, Merc #373,
Mailler, Leathersmith

Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Russ Mitchell
Member
Member # 141

posted 08-09-2007 03:44 PM

This is probably hopelessly stale by now, but when we have assembled the like over mail (as sometimes done with Tatars), we've got holes drilled in the plates, laced with leather into the mail.

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Dulce bellum inexpertis. -- Desiderius Erasmus

Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 08-12-2007 07:59 AM

I'm waiting to see someone post pics of the project.

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Bob R.

Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

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